8/27 & 8/28 Glenn Beck Takes Another Bite Out of the Apple: The Meaning of Divine Destiny

Perhaps 300,000 people will make the trek to Washington D.C. this week for talker Glenn Beck’s 8/28 Restoring Honor rally at the Lincoln Memorial, and many professing Christian ministers will attend his Divine Destiny prayer meeting at the Kennedy Center on August 27th.  I fear most of these patriotic folks don’t know the difference between the free gospel of grace in Jesus Christ and the Mormonism Glenn Beck preaches. I will beat around the bush no longer.

It is really quite simple. Glenn Beck believes the original false gospel Satan put forth in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit:

Genesis 3:4, 5: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

But God had earlier given them warning:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

All Christians recognize the primary consequence of the garden sin: death. Beck, on the other hand, sees the poisonous meal as a good thing. Recently, he said Adam and Eve “came down” and “had to eat the apple” because “they had to have a knowledge of good and evil” because “freedom to choose is essential”. Here is an exchange he had back in 2008 with one caller, who actually had the right idea about sin in the garden:

GLENN: Ask your professor why Adam and Eve came down. Why, what was the whole thing about with the snake and the apple? What was that all about?
CALLER: Because they disobeyed God.
GLENN: Yeah, but what did that do? If Adam and Eve could if Adam and Eve didn’t have the apple, they wouldn’t have been fruitful and multiplied. Man would not be if it wasn’t for that, okay? So what did they do? They ate the apple. Their eyes were opened. They saw the difference between good and evil.

Notice the talk show host tries to correct her and ignores that “disobedience thing”. He echoes Joseph Smith’s Pearl of Great Price (Moses 5:10-11):

“Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient”.

The Latter Day Saints doctrine in view is that “spirit babies” are born of Celestial marriage and as Glenn Beck says, “come down” to be born in human form. The Bible rather teaches that Adam and Eve were created and God breathed into them the Spirit of life. They did not pre-exist. In keeping with the serpent’s deception, Mormons believe that they must become human before they can become “divine.” In spite of his frequent allusions, some people refuse to acknowledge Glenn Beck’s LDS views have made their way into his radio show on a regular basis, as well as on his Fox News and (former) CNN television programs.

The reason the history of Adam and Eve is significant (besides its bearing on views of sin, obedience and punishment) is because it is in the context of Satan’s promise to Adam and Eve they could attain to godhood. Beck believes the fundamental lie we can all become gods, though God himself said “Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:8).

If, as Mormons teach, eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was beneficial, good works merit eternal life. Men are saved if they choose to do good more than they choose to do evil. In reality, those beliefs are opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life, given for the salvation of His people. This second tree is mentioned in Genesis 2 and Revelation chapters 2 and 22. It speaks of the fruit of the righteous life of Jesus, and that salvation is by grace through His death and resurrection, apart from works. Eating from the one tree brings death, eating from the other brings life.

Divine Destiny

Beck has not been forthright about where he got the name “Divine Destiny.” When he uses this term, he is not talking about heaven or God’s blessings upon our nation. Scott Bradley, Mormon historian, describes the meaning of this phrase in his article “A Nation of Divine Destiny”:

“The United States of America is the greatest nation in history. It is truly a nation of divine destiny! …A few short years after this great preparatory work had been accomplished by the Founding Fathers of the United States, Joseph Smith Jr. was born, and the stage was set for the gospel to be restored for the blessing of all mankind.”

The preparatory work was the completion of the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Beck believes these are divinely inspired documents, but never mentions that this is a Mormon belief. Joseph Smith (1805-1844) said that the Constitution would someday “hang by a thread” as two Mormon apostles cite:

Ezra Taft Benson (13th President of LDS church):
It is my conviction that the Elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, will, at that crucial time, successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of Constitutional government. Now is the time to get ready.”

Joseph F. Smith (nephew of founder Joseph Smith), 6th President:
…Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread (emphasis added), and that the Latter-day Saints, above all other people in the world, would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.

Glenn Beck has repeatedly said he believes our constitution is now hanging by a thread* and it is almost certain he believes Mormons will be used by God to restore it. He used this terminology when Orrin Hatch, another Mormon, was on his program, November 4th, 2008: “I mean, when I heard Barack Obama talk about the Constitution and I thought, we are at the point or we are very near the point where our Constitution is hanging by a thread.” Butch Otter (Governor of Idaho), Saxby Chambliss, and Joe Lieberman were also asked about whether they thought the Constitution was hanging by a thread.

In summary, Divine Destiny is the view that the founding documents are equivalent or superior to the Bible. The formation of our nation paved the way for Mormon proselytizing. And though the Republic would nearly falter, Mormons would swoop in to save the day.

Braggadocio and hype are the hallmarks of Glenn Beck’s television and radio shows. His bravado has become even more pronounced leading up to 8/27 and 8/28. Even if Beck were not a Mormon, one could argue that the whole thing borders on a personality cult. Here is a small sampling:

This will be a historic moment. I promise you that it will be. I promise you. I have promised you before and I have personally seen them already. I have told you; prepare to witness mighty and powerful miracles (emphasis mine). I have already seen them. What you will witness on September 28th, the beginning of a restoration you and your children will never forget. (emphasis mine)

I told you some things were going to happen on 8 28 that hadn’t been done in over 235, 38 years. I told you that this is the period of awakening, not the period of enlightenment. Enlightenment is where our founders were. This is the period of awakening.

They [the founders] knew we were going to fail. They knew it. But Thomas Jefferson in 1820 also wrote to John Adams and said, I have faith that when it does, the people will understand what we were trying to do…. Why would you organize yourself in stakes…? He saw that in 1820! But he couldn’t get that done and couldn’t get that into the Constitution. They wouldn’t listen to him. But he said the people that restore it will know. You want to stop gerrymandering? Organize it the way Jefferson and quite honestly the way Moses did. Jefferson knew the answer. We know the answer now.

We have already discussed how Glenn Beck believes the constitution is hanging by a thread and thinks he is personally bringing about another Great Awakening. Just to put an exclamation point to his plans, perhaps he will attempt to organize the crowd into stakes, the Mormon equivalent of a parish or diocese.

It is evident that our nation needs revival. Our respect for marriage is crumbling, even apart from any efforts to change its definition. National and personal debt is an albatross around our necks. The spread of private and state gambling has reduced our work ethic. The Sabbath is routinely ignored. The murder of children not-yet-born continues virtually unabated. These things bring God’s troubling judgments.

Ancient Israel likewise experienced trouble in the days of Elijah. But the prophet did not call an ecumenical rally with the prophets of Baal. Instead he challenged them to a duel: “And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.” (I Kings 18:24).

We should be challenging Glenn Beck’s views for his own soul’s sake, and for the benefit of his followers. It will not do any good to gather in the name of lies and fables, even if the goal is laudable. We shouldn’t put country above the one true God. And we cannot expect His help if we do.

II Corinthinas 6: 14-17

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them;] and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord.

Glenn Beck and George Whitefield

Glenn Beck and Martin Luther King

Glenn Beck and Evangelicals

Glenn Beck Talks About the Constitution

* This phrase comes from a document sometimes referred to as the White Horse Prophecy and Joseph Smith writings. The WHP itself is not part of official Mormon doctrine and was not written by Smith, but by two contemporary supporters who claim it was spoken by Smith.

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  • Mike

    Thank goodness Glenn is bringing Christianity back into the national discussion of what has made America a great nation. We are a nation of many faiths, but Christianity is a religion that teaches the love of Jesus Christ for all men.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Glenn is bringing a pseudo-Christianity to light. God’s gracious blessing made us great, that is true. But Beck is no promoter of God’s grace. Christ did teach us to love one another, among other things. It is not loving to tell a man that is headed for hell, that things are fine, and that he can believe any way he wants to.

  • billybobby

    You’re starting to sound like an imam; Only people who believe exactly what you do can provide any benefit to society, everyone else is an infidel. It’s a dangerous place to go.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Thanks for your post, Billybobby.

      You are exaggerating my beliefs. Millions of people who don’t believe exactly like I do benefit society.

      • billybobby

        But what Glenn Beck is trying to do to help the USA is of no benefit because he is a mormon?

      • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

        Any benefits accrued from the emphasis on encouraging better morals, etc. will be outweighed, I think, by the failure of Beck to provide any power to accomplish it, which requires the grace of God in Christ Jesus, the only God and Savior of the World.

  • wallybob

    David Shedlock said: “Glenn Beck believes the original false gospel Satan put forth in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit:

    “Genesis 3:4, 5: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”

    Genesis 3:22 says: “And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…”

    Who is lying: Satan, when he says “… ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil,” or the Lord God, when He says “…the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…”?????

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      You have proved too much. If it were as you say, first, it would mean God forbad them from doing something that was to their benefit. But God had already said, contrary to Glenn Beck’s insistence that freedom was at stake, that they may eat from every other tree in the garden.

      Second, it would mean that they had already attained godhood, not that they would do so in some future time.

      Third, you have missed the irony in the LORD’s statement to them.

      Notice that in the verse prior to the one you cite, God killed an animal and showed that they had brought death upon themselves and even the animal kingdom. Shockingly (to them) God was more pleased to look at a dead animal than at them. Then notice afterwards, God drove them out of the place of fellowship they had experienced with Him.

      This word of the Lord was His means of further shaming them (Ps 83:16). Do you think they really were better off choosing for themselves what is right and wrong, rather than obediently accepting God’s commandments as what was best for them.

      No, this was a word of irony, as if God were saying to them: Look at yourselves! Look at what you have done! Satan promised you godhood and wisdom. Now this wisdom has only brought you death, misery, and abandonment. Yes, you now know evil, you have tasted it and Oh! what devastation it has brought you.

      God said nearly the same thing in Psalm 82:5-8.

      {82:5} They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in
      darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
      {82:6} I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the
      most High.
      {82:7} But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
      {82:8} Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all
      nations.

      The Bible says of Satan that ” He was a murderer from the beginning, and
      abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
      When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a
      liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44b)

      Who is lying? Satan, of course.

      God is simply echoing Satan’s sinful temptation to their ears, to show them how awful was the decision they made.

      • JustMe

        This is a great debate, there are many interpretations of the fall of man available to the masses. I think the issue is that Mormonism states that they have the more complete truth, the added knowledge that comes from other scripture and revelation. So if a Mormon truly believes his/her religion, which we tend to do, then any arguments that are made that do not include that added knowledge are not worth arguing about. That is a simple thing to understand. One thing about the Mormons, that is hard to argue with, is that the bulk of us live our religion and really try to live as we believe Christ wants us to. That does not mean that everyone who claims to be a Mormon lives correctly, nor does it mean that those that are trying are perfect. We are only saved through the grace of God and the atonement of Christ. But, we are judged based upon our actions her in this life. We ALL receive eternal life, but not ALL of us will receive the utmost reward for our journey here in this life, we must prove ourselves.

        The article you wrote is pretty accurate concerning the Mormon doctrine, and I thank you for not twisting it in any way. I would like to make a comment on the apple and the fall.

        Garden of Eden 101 – Free Lesson.

        Two main commandments are mentioned in the Bible as relating to the creation. First, Multiply and replenish the earth and second do not eat that special fruit. There was really no possible way to obey both commandments. Because they did not have knowledge of sex they could not multiply, and they could only get that knowledge by eating the fruit. So which commandment should they not keep? Here is where agency comes in. God cannot tempt man, if God is good then tempting is not something he will do. This is where Satan comes in. Satan unknowingly helps the process along by becoming the tempter. For “man” to be, Adam and eve had to partake of the fruit, but it had to be their choice. They had to choose between living forever in paradise with no cares or worries, or a life of trial and hardship with a promise that a Saviour would be provided and they could participate in repentance and the atonement. This is the “plan” that was decided upon by the righteous in Heaven before the Earth was created. Agency is the key. We have to have the ability to decide for ourselves so that we can prove to our God that we can become like him. We do not deserve it, it is a gift, but we can show our willingness to obey and learn.

        I always find it funny that so many Christians are not willing to accept Mormonism and Christian because of the Holy Trinity difference. I could actually care less if we are ever accepted as a Christian Sect, it does not really matter in the long run. I think the reason behind wanting to be accepted as a Christian Church is that we would have more interest from those that do not know anything about our religion, and that is unacceptable by the main Churches. Eventually everyone who has ever lived or will ever live will know the Truth and that is enough. As Mormons we just want to help others learn it sooner than later so that they can have the same joy and understanding of what really matters in this life. We believe that we have a more complete understanding of Christs’ Gospel, but we do not know everything, and we are not perfect.

        Here are some clarifications on a few of your points. Mormons believe in multiple Gods, but only one God that is our God. He is the only one that matters, that is why he states in the commandments that you will have no other Gods but me. Why even make that a commandment if there are no other God’s?

        Lastly, you mention the false doctrine Satan used on Eve, the become Gods thing. Satan uses half truth’s all the time, if you notice he says you will not surely die – that is the lie – but will become as God knowing good and evil – that is the truth.

      • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

        Thanks JM, for your comments.

        You wrote: “any arguments that are made that do not include that added knowledge are not worth arguing about”

        On the contrary, since I am arguing from Scripture, the Words that I speak are life. If God chooses to accompany these words with the gracious Holy Spirit, they can change you. The words of men, such as those found in the book of Mormon, cannot bring about spiritual change.

        “bulk of us live our religion ” This may or may not be true, but is irrelevant. The Apostle Paul lived his Pharasaic religion with near perfection, and was outwardly righteous before He met Christ. All of your righteousness is as filthy rags (as is mine). It is the inward part, which only God sees, that is determinitive.

        “Because they did not have knowledge of sex they could not multiply”

        Where did you get the idea they did not know how to have sexual relations? Not from God’s Word. Therefore your premise does not stand. They should have obeyed God.

        “We have to have the ability to decide for ourselves so that we can prove to our God that we can become like him”

        This is why Mormonism is THE original cult. You believe the lie of Satan.

        You also wrote: “Mormons believe in multiple Gods, but only one God that is our God. He is the only one that matters, that is why he states in the commandments that you will have no other Gods but me. Why even make that a commandment if there are no other God’s?”

        UPDATED 8/25: I should have added that the reason God added the commandment to have no other Gods, even though there are no other gods is simple: There are gods of man’s own making. Even greed is idolatry.

        There are no other Gods. Period. All other gods are idols, the works of men’s minds and hands. They do not exist. The whole of your religion requires that God lied about Who he really is. He is the creator of everything. Not just everything in “our world”.

        In the book of Revelation we sell all of Creation worshipping forever the One Creator, the Lord Jesus. They do not go off after a season to start their own worlds.

      • Bweez

        David, I agree with your rebuttal to JM. The thought that Adam & Eve had no concept of sex is an “idea!” NOT Scriptural. Even if they didn’t have sex and God told them to multiply… surely the Creator could have arranged it without the necessity to sin!…
        I’ve watched Glenn Beck on TV for years and knew he was Mormon, but really didn’t hear a lot of his doctrine until the other day. Something like, “YOU MADE A DEAL WITH GOD AND THEN HE PUT YOU ON EARTH to perform your job.” I told my husband… “whoops, that’s Mormon doctrine, pre-existence.”

        Nonetheless, I admire what Beck is trying to do. He has awakened many Americans, especially Christians to the fact that they must stand up for their country or the devil and his minions are going to destroy it. About Thomas Jefferson, GB says “read original writings yourself to find out what they believed!” We should… then we’ll know. right? As for the political part, as a child in a Pentecostal church, I remember being told that we should stay out of politics… that our job was just to pray. We weren’t even encouraged to vote! I believe this was a convoluted “idea” that was placed in our churches to keep us from being effective! I think it’s time we stand up and claim our nation for God! But, (because it is our first responsibility,) I will pray for the salvation of the lost and that the Holy Spirit will be there to catch the deceit being fed to them about the salvation message and will draw His chosen to His Kingdom. Jere 29:11-13 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. YOU WILL SEEK ME AND YOU WILL FIND ME, WHEN YOU SEEK ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART.”

  • lda

    Good try, but Beck doesn’t care what your religion is. His view about religion is his own. We have our own. What we share with Glenn is that we have lost faith as a nation and need to recapture it. We also understand that we need to restore honor within ourselves as individuals in order to be honorable as a nation. I believe this nation is heading down a very dark path, and I’m proud to stand up with Glenn to start doing something about it.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Thank you Ida for your thoughts.

      What faith is that we are to recapture? Faith is not a virture in and of itself. It is trust. But if you trust the wrong “god” your faith if futile.

      You suggested we must “restore honor within ourselves” but such honor never existed in us, not since Adam and Eve believed the lie. Honor and all virtues are granted by grace by God, and not restored to ourselves.

      As I stated in the essay, I agree with you about the path our nation has taken. But if there is any hope, it is to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. That gospel of grace is the one George Whitefield and Jonathan preached during the First Great Awakening. It was not freedom of choice, individual liberty and all the other things Beck says it was.

      Beck says he loves George Whitefield (though lately, perhaps after learning what Whitefield actually preached, he seems to be ignoring him).

      Here is a place to find some of his sermons:

      http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/Whitefield.html

  • Sue

    EXCEPT, Glenn has said there will be a religious leaders of many faiths. And, you must think we’re lemmings. While some may be, I’m sure many are not and know when someone is trying to “get over” on them. I have faith that Glenn’s intention is not to convert to Mormonism, but to “Restore Honor” in the USA. It’s desperately needed.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      And such restoration cannot happen through the works of men. It would be a work of Grace, through the preaching of the true gospel, something Glenn apparently knows nothing of.

    • Susie Homemaker

      Only God can discern the intentions of another man’s heart. We are called to be skeptics. Acts 17:10-12

  • Gerald Moss

    Why are you scared of the LDS? The bigger threat to Protestants, Catholics and Mormons is atheism/secularism.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      I am not scared of Latter Day Saints. I am not scared of the poison under the sink. But I will neither drink it, nor stand by silently while others do.

    • Susie Homemaker

      How is it that concern for the souls of Mormons translates into fear? The perfect love of God casts out fear. As for the biggest threat to Christianity, that would be nominal Christians IMHO. They are among us but are wolves in sheep’s clothing, paraphrasing Jesus.

  • Ray Rodda

    “They did not pre-exist”, oh contrar

    Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      There are two other possible interpretations of the passage you mention.

      First, note that it is quite possible that the word formed speaks of the actions of God after conception, just as the second portion speaks of actions before Jeremiah was born.

      Second, and in my humble opinion, more likely, is that the omnicient God who is Sovereign over all his works is simply descriging his intimate knowledge of us before we existed. Just as in Psalm 139, of God it says Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance
      were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

      The whole passage is of the same wonderful knowledge of God:

      {139:1} O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known [me.
      ]{139:2} Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou
      understandest my thought afar off.
      {139:3} Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted
      [with] all my ways.
      {139:4} For [there is] not a word in my tongue, [but,] lo, O LORD, thou
      knowest it altogether.
      {139:5} Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon
      me.
      {139:6} [Such] knowledge [is] too wonderful for me; it is high, I
      cannot [attain] unto it.
      {139:7} Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee
      from thy presence?
      {139:8} If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed
      in hell, behold, thou [art there.
      ]{139:9} [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the
      uttermost parts of the sea;
      {139:10} Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall
      hold me.
      {139:11} If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night
      shall be light about me.
      {139:12} Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth
      as the day: the darkness and the light [are] both alike [to thee.
      ]{139:13} For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my
      mother’s womb.
      {139:14} I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made:
      marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well.
      {139:15} My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret,
      [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
      {139:16} Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in
      thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance
      were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

  • Kathy Busch

    I get so unbelievably tired of those who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believing they understand LDS theology. I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 36+ years, and no amount of enticing could convince me to return to Catholicism, the religion of my birth, or to return to the tenets of “traditional” Christianity. For the gazillionth time, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WE ARE SAVED BY WORKS. If you’re going to attempt to sound conversant on LDS theology, at least GET IT RIGHT!!!!!

    You are ignorant of the Book of Mormon’s teachings about Jesus Christ if you believe that we believe we are saved by works. I quote from the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 10:24: “Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.” And, again, in 2 Nephi 25:23, we read: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

    I could go on and on and on quoting scriptures from the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, AND the New Testament, ALL of which are, as you well know, standard works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and by so doing, document the fact that LDS theology teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of mankind, and that no man can be saved in the Kingdom of God except through the Atonement and Resurrection, i.e. the grace, of Jesus Christ, no matter how many good works he/she performs in this life.

    Again, all you do when you pretend to understand LDS theology is display your ignorance. You have not been “inside”, i.e. you have not lived being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, so you know not whereof you speak. Everything you say is ignorant hearsay. I, on the otherhand, HAVE LIVED 19 years as a Catholic, a member of mainstream Christianity, so I DO KNOW whereof I speak.

    You owe it to yourself to unloose yourself from the bond of ignorance that bands together all of those who think they understand LDS theology, when if fact they do not. Be courageous: read the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price IN THEIR ENTIRETY. Show some backbone, and don’t be afraid of them, as many “traditional” Christians are. Broaden your mind. Your ignorance hasn’t convinced me in 36+ years to see things your way, and I promise you it never will.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      “so unbelievably tired” “For the gazillionth time”

      Sounds like you have some anger issues to deal with before we could ever converse. As long as you say that you will never be convinced, I guess you never will. Unless God grants you repentance unto life!

      • JimO

        Well and wisely said David.

      • Kathy Busch

        Oh, I am angry, David. I’m angry because of the ignorance and arrogance of those who think like you. I would love to converse with you, but as long as you choose to remain in ignorance, there can be no conversation between us on the subject at hand.

        May God grant you repentance unto life. He has already granted it unto me, thank you.

      • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

        I assumed you were a Mormon: Here is what Mormons teach:

        3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

        Notice the words “by obedience to the laws”.. That is what we mean by salvation by works. So do you believe that or not?

  • Dave

    You don’t have to agree with Glenn Beck’s religion but you should respect what he is attempting to do in making Christianity a focal point again. This country needs righteous men & women of all faiths to stand up for what they believe and give God the credit for all things good.
    Quit drinking your kool-aid and find other issues to be concerned about.

  • Howard Cameron

    God Bless America…. and Glenn Beck!

  • killerbug

    This reminds me strongly of incidents in the recent past, specifically in St. Louis and Phoenix. In Missouri local ministers walked out of a neighborhood meeting to protest the placement of a porn shop in their neighborhood because, get this, two LDS bishops were in attendance. Petty differences in religion were more important than the profound moral damage done by pornography.

    In Phoenix, a large ecumenical meeting, as in requiring a stadium, was nearly cancelled when local, so called Christian, leaders threatened to walk out because…you guessed it, there were Mormons in attendance.

    Christian leaders are possibly the most moronic and bigotted people on Earth. The author of this hate piece is a prime example of such stupidity.

    • Susie Homemaker

      Why is this a “hate” piece? I have not read one hateful or threatening word by Mr. Shedlock.
      Disagreement does not equate to hate.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      I cannot speak for the actions of others. I would have participated in the neighborhood meeting you describe. If you had followed the link to my other articles you would have seen that 1) I have appreciated Beck’s show and the political information he gives and 2) I make a distinction between working together on social or political issues – this rally is neither political nor about social issues. It is about religion.

  • Kevin

    Glenn Beck is a mislead human being. If he would put as much emphasis on the history of the Mormon church as he does our nation, he would find he’s wrong about Mormonism. It is sad so many good folks have bought into it.

  • Otto Smith

    You know what? Glenn Beck is doing something that encourages people to be good and believe in Jesus. He is doing a lot more than you will ever do in your entire life writing narrow minded articles…!

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Otto,

      Thanks for your comment.

  • Stephen

    Kathy you posted:
    Nephi 25:23, we read: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

    This verse is a distortion of what the New Testament teaches. There is no “after all you can do” in the New Testament. What your doctrine implies is that if you live a good enough life, God may bestow upon you the grace required to meet His standard. This is an LDS addition to the gospel. Anything we could do “is as filthy rags”. We do not need a little bit of God’s grace to make us acceptable to Him. There is nothing we can do to earn anything. His grace is total. It takes us from zero to acceptable, and only through what Christ did for us.

    • Mike Leavitt

      This is so typical. Take your interpretation of scripture and DEMAND that everyone must comply to YOUR WORD or they are thrust to hell. As Isaiah might say, “Come, let us reason together… ”

      I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe He is the creator of the Heavens and the Earth. I believe He is my personal and The Supreme Savior. I believe He died for my sins and was truly resurrected in the flesh to over come death and hell. I am a Christian in EVERY sense of the word.

      I am also a Latter-Day Saint. So I don’t believe the Bible teaches that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one entity. I don’t believe in the post-apostolic creeds created by the Catholic Church. I believe that we lived before we came to earth. (Your biblical reference to God breathing the breath of life into Adam doesn’t preclude a pre-earth life.) I believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever so he continues to speak to man through prophets.

      So there are some differences in doctrine. My interpretation of scripture might be different than yours. But I believe in Christ and I count him as my God and Savior.

      So… Am I going to hell?

      Why?

      • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

        No, you are not a Christian in every sense of the word. Christians believe God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are in essence God. Christians don’t believe eating from the fruit was necessary, but rather the downfall of man.

        I cannot say whether you will go to hell. If you believe, as Mormons teac,h that the Atonement only makes up for your shortfall or provides a means to work for your salvation, you are without Christ. Mormons believe the lie of the Devil from the garden of Eden. They deny that God is One. The god of the bible to them is only the Son of an unknown God. That is paganism, not Christianity.

  • Fred Thomason

    David,
    This is a great essay. I can tell that you really that your heart goes out for all that follow GB. I was having a simlar discussion with some Christian coworkers about GB. I just wanted them to use some discernment when just accepting what he says. You articulated it much better than I ever could, and without coming across as hateful, but with the hard truth and love.

    I noticed reading the comments that several people mention he is bringing faiths together; which is fine, however, as Christians, we must remember there is only one way to the Father. In addition, remember not to turn this country into our idol. As John Piper said, “This country is not my god.” When I first heard that I was upset but after some reflection, I understood what he meant.

    It is good to care about the way your country is going, but when you can (and have) defended your political leanings more than you have confessed and defended the gospel, it may be time to review what your idols are.

    I’m looking forward to reading more from you. Thanks again for the insight.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Very gracious of you.

    • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

      Thanks Fred, for your kind comments.

  • William

    David, lets ask all of the LDS people to look at the foundation of their faith. How did the LDS church start? Why are there so many connections between the LDS church and Free Masonry???? Free Masonry teaches that Lucifer is god. LDS church teaches that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers? Free Masonry teaches that good works get you to heaven. LDS church teaches that good works get you to heaven. Just ask Ed Decker? He was almost killed for speaking out against Free Masonry in Ireland if my memory is correct. What about Nauvoo, Illinois? Isn’t that where Mormons believe that Joseph Smiths blood was shed for their sins? Look at the “doctrine” of the chruch and it’s teachings? Since the murder of the Smiths, Mormons have clung to the words of Elder John Taylor in Doctrine and Covenants 135:4, which draws a parallel between the death of Joseph Smith and the death of Jesus by saying that Smith went “like a lamb to the slaughter.” I must protest this comparison, as Jesus did not fight back during His torture and crucifixion. Smith, on the other hand, fought back with a pistol that had been smuggled to him at the jail. By the way, who was the angry mob that killed JS? Wasn’t it shown it was Free Masons? Check it out and you will know the truth. John 14:6 How come there are a TON of Masonic symbols on the Salt Lake City church??? If the LDS church is correct in their doctrine from the beginning, how can it possibly change with each new “prophet”??? Example, African Americans(Blacks) were n0t allowed to be members until only a few years ago. HuH?? Jesus said that if you keep my commandments you are my friends, doesn’t matter what color your skin is? Speaking about that, I know that someone will read this and help me, but I know that LDS teachings teach that if you have black skin you are cursed. I am so glad the the Holy Bible is correct in teaching that we have all been born in sin and are cursed and that the Book of Romans and the road that it leads us down will show us that we can be saved from God’s wrath on Judgment Day only because of the fact that the real Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the only one who could keep the Law perfectly, paid for my sins in full and that “whosoever” believes in Him will be saved!!!! AMEN!!! Every current prophet in the LDS church can change the definitions and “doctrines” of any predecessor “prophet”, let me tell you in closing, Jesus and His words don’t change because He doesn’t change!! [Heb 13:8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    [Heb 13:9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
    God Bless!

    • http://BJ Brett

      Matthew 7:15-20

      15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
      16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
      17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
      18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
      19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
      20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

      I am a member of the LDS faith and have not personally observed any “bad fruits” of the Mormon church. Most of the negative comments about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints I have read in the threads are probably due to misconceptions. I served a mission in Paris, France for two years and had the opportunity to learn about many other Christian Faiths as well as Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism. I had many long conversations with leaders and members of these religions. I openly listened and gave respect for their views even if they did not for mine.

      I am grateful for anyone who is willing to stand up for the cause of Christ, so I appreciate the positive comments posted in this blog.

      I recognize I am nothing without Christ, my Savior. I truly believe I will not be saved without Him and would never minimize His sacrifice for myself and all mankind. I can’t help but wonder why He would give commandments to mankind if they meant nothing, though…Hence there has to be some provision in Christ’s Gospel for works. Isn’t part of what sets Christians apart from other faiths their belief in Christ’s 2 greatest Commandments: Loving the Lord our God and our neighbors as ourselves?

      I personally support anyone who is genuinely working to promote Christian values, be it Glenn Beck or anyone else.

      • http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?author=22 David Shedlock

        Why do you Mormons do that? You are ashamed of what you actually believe and, in fact, should be ashamed. You know there is a wide gap between what Christians and Mormons believe, but so many of you try to act like those differences don’t matter. That is patently dishonest. The god you believe in is no different in essence than yourself. He was once a man, remember? Instead of the incarnation, you believe in the opposite, that men become gods. It may be true you believe you could not be saved without Christ, but that is not enough. Mormons also believe you can’t be saved without believing in Joseph Smith.

        You misunderstand or misrepresent the gospel. I do not believe, nor has the church believed that the 10 Commandments mean nothing. The law of God is a schoolmaster to lead to Christ. Without the law, there is no knowledge of sin. They are the standard we follow. They display God’s Holy Character. But they do not save us. Christ ALONE saves us. Our works do not add one iota to our salvation. There is no provision in the gospel for works. They are as filthy rags. So please quit trying to act like you and I believe the same thing. We do not.

  • William

    David, thank you for doing what you are doing here. From what I see here, and from what I know, there is a great love for those who are part of the LDS system! I share in your desire for them to come to a saving knowledge of the “TRUTH”!!! John 17:17 To GOD be the Glory great things He has done, so loved He the world that He gave us His Son!!!!! Part of my testimony is that the Lord delivered me out of the false deception of the roman catholic church and its teachings and my hope here is that it will encourage LDS members to examine what they believe and what they have been taught along with what their “Prophets” have done and said and compare it with what the KJV teaches. Remember, the roman catholic church has their own version of a “prophet” called a pope. How many popes have changed what other popes have done over the years? Sound somewhat familiar? Now I used KJV on purpose, that is what they accept as GOD’s word, kinda. Pointing to the 10 Commandment as being the school master should and will show any human being that they can never become GOD because by definition GOD is perfect, holy and righteous. Who as a human being ever accomplished that? Jesus Christ did. That is why only through Him can we get to heaven. Brett mentioned not “seeing” any “bad fruits”. My question to him would have to be, “What would you accept as evidence?” God Bless! William