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	<title>Comments on: John Calvin Turns 500</title>
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		<title>By: tom_sheepandgoats</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8162</link>
		<dc:creator>tom_sheepandgoats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8162</guid>
		<description>Sorry. You&#039;re right, it&#039;s not on topic. Just a reaction to your statement  about us misusing Col 1:26. &quot;Agree to disagree&quot; can suffice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry. You&#39;re right, it&#39;s not on topic. Just a reaction to your statement  about us misusing Col 1:26. &#8220;Agree to disagree&#8221; can suffice.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8160</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8160</guid>
		<description>The Catholic usage of the word yes, but the way it is used in the Bible, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Catholic usage of the word yes, but the way it is used in the Bible, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Strabo</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8157</link>
		<dc:creator>Strabo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8157</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a Witness or a Calvinist, but I thought it deserved to be pointed out.  I don&#039;t think Witnesses are far out with their interpretation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, isn&#039;t &quot;saint&quot; typically reserved for the deceased?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not a Witness or a Calvinist, but I thought it deserved to be pointed out.  I don&#39;t think Witnesses are far out with their interpretation.</p>
<p>Also, isn&#39;t &#8220;saint&#8221; typically reserved for the deceased?</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8147</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8147</guid>
		<description>Do you think that mystery is what Tom says?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m laughing out loud... I was expecting to have a debate on Calvin or Calvinism.  This is the last thing I expected.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for pointing that out.  I still think Tom is taking a very giant leap from this one verse, and the verses he cites in this reply comment.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All we can know for sure regarding this particular passage:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1. The mystery is made known to the saints, (Colossians 1:26).  Christ-followers, those who have and are being justified and sanctified in Christ (hence &quot;saint&quot; set apart).&lt;br&gt;2.  All treasures and wisdom and knowledge are in Christ.  Paul is arguing that their treasures are accessible to every believer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think that mystery is what Tom says?</p>
<p>I&#39;m laughing out loud&#8230; I was expecting to have a debate on Calvin or Calvinism.  This is the last thing I expected.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing that out.  I still think Tom is taking a very giant leap from this one verse, and the verses he cites in this reply comment.</p>
<p>All we can know for sure regarding this particular passage:</p>
<p>1. The mystery is made known to the saints, (Colossians 1:26).  Christ-followers, those who have and are being justified and sanctified in Christ (hence &#8220;saint&#8221; set apart).<br />2.  All treasures and wisdom and knowledge are in Christ.  Paul is arguing that their treasures are accessible to every believer.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8146</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8146</guid>
		<description>First off I&#039;m don&#039;t want to enter into a long debate over something that wasn&#039;t even the subject of the post.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Secondly, yes he is writing this to Christians.  The mystery has been revealed to them.  Who didn&#039;t understand the Gospel?  Who didn&#039;t understand the preeminence of Christ?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Jewish people.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;These verses you cite... for all believers in Jesus Christ.  While election is seen (and I believe it to be a doctrine of grace) no where is there a number assigned to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off I&#39;m don&#39;t want to enter into a long debate over something that wasn&#39;t even the subject of the post.</p>
<p>Secondly, yes he is writing this to Christians.  The mystery has been revealed to them.  Who didn&#39;t understand the Gospel?  Who didn&#39;t understand the preeminence of Christ?</p>
<p>The Jewish people.</p>
<p>These verses you cite&#8230; for all believers in Jesus Christ.  While election is seen (and I believe it to be a doctrine of grace) no where is there a number assigned to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Strabo</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8145</link>
		<dc:creator>Strabo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8145</guid>
		<description>Typo correction: Col 2:2-3 *doesn&#039;t* imply that the mystery of God is Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typo correction: Col 2:2-3 *doesn&#39;t* imply that the mystery of God is Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Strabo</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8144</link>
		<dc:creator>Strabo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8144</guid>
		<description>Actually, Shane, a more accurate translation Col. 2:2-3 ought to read (a la a the surprisingly accurate KJ translation): &quot;That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So it really does imply that the mystery of God is Christ, but something else.  My two cents: Koine is King.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.greekbible.com/index.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.greekbible.com/index.php&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Shane, a more accurate translation Col. 2:2-3 ought to read (a la a the surprisingly accurate KJ translation): &#8220;That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.&#8221;</p>
<p>So it really does imply that the mystery of God is Christ, but something else.  My two cents: Koine is King.  <a href="http://www.greekbible.com/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.greekbible.com/index.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: tom_sheepandgoats</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8143</link>
		<dc:creator>tom_sheepandgoats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8143</guid>
		<description>It is not a misuse of Col 1:26 and it is not taken out of context.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The letter of Colossians was written to dedicated and faithful Christians, &lt;i&gt;&quot;to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos&#039;sae.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (Col 1:2) The preeminence of Christ would hardly be a mystery to them. It would instead be a fundamental, basic point. Of course the sacred secret involves Christ&#039;s preeminence, but to dig deeper is to uncover how his preeminence served to fulfill God&#039;s purpose, and how it involved those early Christians in blessings and privileges heretofore unimagined. Paul writes of how the Father &lt;i&gt;&quot;has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light,&quot; &quot;transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (Col 1:12,13) By this means, God will &lt;i&gt;&quot;through him [Christ] to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross&quot; (Col 1:20)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As put in another letter, &lt;i&gt;&quot;for he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. (Eph 1:9-10)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In yet greater context, the Bible begins with God putting humans on earth, not because he wanted them somewhere else, but to &lt;i&gt;&quot;fill the earth and subdue it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; His original will, then, is for humans to live forever in the home he created for them. Death came about only as a result of their rebellion, or disobedience. (Rom 5:12)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Bible ends with an account of how New Jerusalem descends from heaven to earth and thus &lt;i&gt;&quot;the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (Rev 21:3,4)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christ&#039;s preeminence involves incorporating a certain number of humans, forgiven of sins, into that heavenly kingdom - to benefit the vast majority of humankind on earth.. Those Colossians were representative of that group. God &lt;i&gt;&quot;and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.&quot; (Rev 5:10)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This means of saving faithful humankind was long a secret among worshippers of God, and was revealed only through Christ. It is the sacred secret (or mystery, if you will) mentioned many times in Scripture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not a misuse of Col 1:26 and it is not taken out of context.</p>
<p>The letter of Colossians was written to dedicated and faithful Christians, <i>&#8220;to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos&#39;sae.&#8221;</i> (Col 1:2) The preeminence of Christ would hardly be a mystery to them. It would instead be a fundamental, basic point. Of course the sacred secret involves Christ&#39;s preeminence, but to dig deeper is to uncover how his preeminence served to fulfill God&#39;s purpose, and how it involved those early Christians in blessings and privileges heretofore unimagined. Paul writes of how the Father <i>&#8220;has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light,&#8221; &#8220;transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,&#8221;</i> (Col 1:12,13) By this means, God will <i>&#8220;through him [Christ] to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross&#8221; (Col 1:20)</i></p>
<p>As put in another letter, <i>&#8220;for he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. (Eph 1:9-10)</i></p>
<p>In yet greater context, the Bible begins with God putting humans on earth, not because he wanted them somewhere else, but to <i>&#8220;fill the earth and subdue it.&#8221;</i> His original will, then, is for humans to live forever in the home he created for them. Death came about only as a result of their rebellion, or disobedience. (Rom 5:12)</p>
<p>The Bible ends with an account of how New Jerusalem descends from heaven to earth and thus <i>&#8220;the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away.&#8221;</i> (Rev 21:3,4)</p>
<p>Christ&#39;s preeminence involves incorporating a certain number of humans, forgiven of sins, into that heavenly kingdom &#8211; to benefit the vast majority of humankind on earth.. Those Colossians were representative of that group. God <i>&#8220;and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.&#8221; (Rev 5:10)</i></p>
<p>This means of saving faithful humankind was long a secret among worshippers of God, and was revealed only through Christ. It is the sacred secret (or mystery, if you will) mentioned many times in Scripture.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8138</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235#comment-8138</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a misuse of Colossians 1:26 - it is taken out of context.  Look at Colossians 1:27 - &quot;To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, &lt;i&gt;which is Christ in you, the hope of glory&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The mystery that is made known is the preeminence of Christ, (Colossians 1:15-23).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We see later on Paul writes in Colossians 2:2-3 - &quot;that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of the full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God&#039;s mystery, &lt;i&gt;which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knoweldge&lt;/i&gt;.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Context is king.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What JWs are doing is taking a verse and stretching it to say what they want it to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s a misuse of Colossians 1:26 &#8211; it is taken out of context.  Look at Colossians 1:27 &#8211; &#8220;To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, <i>which is Christ in you, the hope of glory</i>.</p>
<p>The mystery that is made known is the preeminence of Christ, (Colossians 1:15-23).</p>
<p>We see later on Paul writes in Colossians 2:2-3 &#8211; &#8220;that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of the full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God&#39;s mystery, <i>which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knoweldge</i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>Context is king.</p>
<p>What JWs are doing is taking a verse and stretching it to say what they want it to say.</p>
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		<title>By: tomsheepandgoats</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=3235&#038;cpage=1#comment-8136</link>
		<dc:creator>tomsheepandgoats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Jehovah’s Witnesses would later insist that heaven has room for only 144,000&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Only because they believe that the prospect for most approved persons is everlasting life on earth under God&#039;s kingdom.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They also maintain that the &quot;sacred secret,&quot; (Colossians 1:26) a &quot;secret&quot; first made known to the early Christian congregation, means that there would be some from humankind, a comparatively tiny number, who would share in this heavenly government. Their ultimate destiny would be in heaven, not on earth. Since this &quot;secret&quot; was made known shortly after Christ&#039;s resurrection, and there are only 144,000 of these who will serve as &quot;kings and priests,&quot; very few of them are on earth today. Most, we maintain, have long since lived their lives and been resurrected to heavenly life&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A minor clarification to your well-researched post, which I hope you don&#039;t mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jehovah’s Witnesses would later insist that heaven has room for only 144,000&#8243;</p>
<p>Only because they believe that the prospect for most approved persons is everlasting life on earth under God&#39;s kingdom.</p>
<p>They also maintain that the &#8220;sacred secret,&#8221; (Colossians 1:26) a &#8220;secret&#8221; first made known to the early Christian congregation, means that there would be some from humankind, a comparatively tiny number, who would share in this heavenly government. Their ultimate destiny would be in heaven, not on earth. Since this &#8220;secret&#8221; was made known shortly after Christ&#39;s resurrection, and there are only 144,000 of these who will serve as &#8220;kings and priests,&#8221; very few of them are on earth today. Most, we maintain, have long since lived their lives and been resurrected to heavenly life</p>
<p>A minor clarification to your well-researched post, which I hope you don&#39;t mind.</p>
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