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	<title>Comments for Caffeinated Thoughts</title>
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	<description>Stimulating Christian Conservative News &#38; Commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:41:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Baltimatt</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32412</link>
		<dc:creator>Baltimatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32412</guid>
		<description>Brittany--

That&#039;s one of the things marriage is for:  the nurturing of children.

If marriage is to be something one does to follow God&#039;s plan, that is something done through one&#039;s church or other religious institution.  As far as state-issued marriage licenses, that should have no religious requirement.

Don&#039;t marry same-sex couples in your church if that&#039;s what you believe, but I see no reason to apply religious restrictions to the broader population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brittany&#8211;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the things marriage is for:  the nurturing of children.</p>
<p>If marriage is to be something one does to follow God&#8217;s plan, that is something done through one&#8217;s church or other religious institution.  As far as state-issued marriage licenses, that should have no religious requirement.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t marry same-sex couples in your church if that&#8217;s what you believe, but I see no reason to apply religious restrictions to the broader population.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Baltimatt</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32410</link>
		<dc:creator>Baltimatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 11:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32410</guid>
		<description>Again, same-sex marriage was not legal in North Carolina, so this amendment went far beyond &quot;preserving&quot; marriage.  Even if same-sex marriage was one day approved, it would not change the fact the opposite-sex couples would still be able to marry and would still be able to continue what they see as God&#039;s plan.  

Some say marriage illustrates the relationship between Christ and his Church.  Should that mean we deny marriage to non-Christians, since they can&#039;t fully understand the nature of marriage (as Christians see it)?  When are Christians going to get serious about protecting marriage from divorced people, as Jesus commanded (well, there&#039;s a little ambiguity depending on which Gospel you&#039;re reading)?  You yourself said marriage is an exclusive, live-long covenant, yet we are not enforcing that.

Sorry, Shane, but it don&#039;t think it&#039;s our government&#039;s job to enforce your religious precepts.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, same-sex marriage was not legal in North Carolina, so this amendment went far beyond &#8220;preserving&#8221; marriage.  Even if same-sex marriage was one day approved, it would not change the fact the opposite-sex couples would still be able to marry and would still be able to continue what they see as God&#8217;s plan.  </p>
<p>Some say marriage illustrates the relationship between Christ and his Church.  Should that mean we deny marriage to non-Christians, since they can&#8217;t fully understand the nature of marriage (as Christians see it)?  When are Christians going to get serious about protecting marriage from divorced people, as Jesus commanded (well, there&#8217;s a little ambiguity depending on which Gospel you&#8217;re reading)?  You yourself said marriage is an exclusive, live-long covenant, yet we are not enforcing that.</p>
<p>Sorry, Shane, but it don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s our government&#8217;s job to enforce your religious precepts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Baltimatt</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32409</link>
		<dc:creator>Baltimatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 10:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32409</guid>
		<description>Shane--

Would you say Muslims, Jews, atheists, and other non-Christians are living a lifestyle contrary to God&#039;s design?  If so, should we use the power of the state to set them straight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shane&#8211;</p>
<p>Would you say Muslims, Jews, atheists, and other non-Christians are living a lifestyle contrary to God&#8217;s design?  If so, should we use the power of the state to set them straight?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32408</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 05:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I mourn as well that homosexuals are involved in a lifestyle that is contrary to God&#039;s design and the consequences that come with it.  My hope is that they would find their identity in Christ through a relationship with him instead of wrapping it up in who they are sexually attracted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mourn as well that homosexuals are involved in a lifestyle that is contrary to God&#8217;s design and the consequences that come with it.  My hope is that they would find their identity in Christ through a relationship with him instead of wrapping it up in who they are sexually attracted to.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32407</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 05:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32407</guid>
		<description>I like how Pastor Greear described the amendment (link above in post):

&quot;I think it is crucial for us to speak up–again, as an act of love for our neighbors–for the preservation of this institution in our society. The loss of something so fundamental to human flourishing would yield devastating consequences: how we perceive God’s image; how we understand God-like love; how kids understand their own gender identity; the building block of society and statistically-proven healthiest environment for the rearing of children—all this would be affected by the loss of God’s design in marriage.

Now, some of you won’t hear this as love. You might even hear it as bigotry. I hope you’ll understand our heart more than that, and, if you can, give us the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is arguing that homosexuals are lesser people or ought to be ostracized in our society, or that they ought not to enjoy the same freedoms or protections that the rest of us enjoy. The point is simply that you don’t rewrite the nature of God’s designs based on contemporary cultural mores. Again, marriage was not invented by government; it was merely recognized by the government. God is the designer, and God established it as the union of a man and woman in an exclusive, life-long covenant.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how Pastor Greear described the amendment (link above in post):</p>
<p>&#8220;I think it is crucial for us to speak up–again, as an act of love for our neighbors–for the preservation of this institution in our society. The loss of something so fundamental to human flourishing would yield devastating consequences: how we perceive God’s image; how we understand God-like love; how kids understand their own gender identity; the building block of society and statistically-proven healthiest environment for the rearing of children—all this would be affected by the loss of God’s design in marriage.</p>
<p>Now, some of you won’t hear this as love. You might even hear it as bigotry. I hope you’ll understand our heart more than that, and, if you can, give us the benefit of the doubt. Nobody is arguing that homosexuals are lesser people or ought to be ostracized in our society, or that they ought not to enjoy the same freedoms or protections that the rest of us enjoy. The point is simply that you don’t rewrite the nature of God’s designs based on contemporary cultural mores. Again, marriage was not invented by government; it was merely recognized by the government. God is the designer, and God established it as the union of a man and woman in an exclusive, life-long covenant.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Brittany Rae</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32406</link>
		<dc:creator>Brittany Rae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 03:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here via Mere-O and Matt&#039;s FB: I would add, in addition to mourning  because the amendments are necessary, we mourn because they&#039;re difficult for homosexuals. 

@ Baltimatt: Man, you&#039;re so right - the amendment does hurt! As Evans&#039; wrote in her post: &quot;...like hell&quot;. But that doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s not a healthy amendment for society. A really, really hard one, yes, but maybe healthy too. 

Also, wouldn&#039;t it be great if the social support was a separate issue from the marriage one? I wish the tax breaks could be for any deemed competent to raise a kid. Helping parents to raise kids seems to be a legitimate gov&#039;t role; at least more so than defining marriage. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here via Mere-O and Matt&#8217;s FB: I would add, in addition to mourning  because the amendments are necessary, we mourn because they&#8217;re difficult for homosexuals. </p>
<p>@ Baltimatt: Man, you&#8217;re so right &#8211; the amendment does hurt! As Evans&#8217; wrote in her post: &#8220;&#8230;like hell&#8221;. But that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not a healthy amendment for society. A really, really hard one, yes, but maybe healthy too. </p>
<p>Also, wouldn&#8217;t it be great if the social support was a separate issue from the marriage one? I wish the tax breaks could be for any deemed competent to raise a kid. Helping parents to raise kids seems to be a legitimate gov&#8217;t role; at least more so than defining marriage. </p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Baltimatt</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32405</link>
		<dc:creator>Baltimatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You keep referring to this as a marriage amendment in North Carolina when it was much more that that.  It was telling homosexuals that their relationships are utterly and totally worthless.  It was a mean-spirited attempt to hurt them and their families (yes, some homosexuals are raising children, but I guess those families don&#039;t deserve any kind of societal support).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You keep referring to this as a marriage amendment in North Carolina when it was much more that that.  It was telling homosexuals that their relationships are utterly and totally worthless.  It was a mean-spirited attempt to hurt them and their families (yes, some homosexuals are raising children, but I guess those families don&#8217;t deserve any kind of societal support).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32404</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 03:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32404</guid>
		<description>Not fining them, nor am I picking on anybody in particular.  It should grieve us that such an amendment is even necessary.  Also we should consider how &quot;spiking the ball&quot; impacts our personal witness.  The Gospel is offensive enough will our rhetoric put up a wall?  I am by no means saying we shouldn&#039;t put forth an amendment, I think you read my stuff often enough to know I&#039;m an avid defender of our values.  We just need to consider is there a right way and a wrong way to go about doing that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not fining them, nor am I picking on anybody in particular.  It should grieve us that such an amendment is even necessary.  Also we should consider how &#8220;spiking the ball&#8221; impacts our personal witness.  The Gospel is offensive enough will our rhetoric put up a wall?  I am by no means saying we shouldn&#8217;t put forth an amendment, I think you read my stuff often enough to know I&#8217;m an avid defender of our values.  We just need to consider is there a right way and a wrong way to go about doing that?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Rhetoric and Engagement in &#8220;Culture Wars&#8221; by David Keys</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/christian-rhetoric-and-engagement-in-culture-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-32403</link>
		<dc:creator>David Keys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 01:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20365#comment-32403</guid>
		<description>Although one must eventually come back to reality, and back to the ongoing contest of ideas, I would not &quot;fine&quot; the defenders of our values for &quot;excessive celebration&quot; over a battle fairly won.  Well done, North Carolina.  Yet the campaign is not over, and we ultimately &quot;wrestle not against flesh and blood.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although one must eventually come back to reality, and back to the ongoing contest of ideas, I would not &#8220;fine&#8221; the defenders of our values for &#8220;excessive celebration&#8221; over a battle fairly won.  Well done, North Carolina.  Yet the campaign is not over, and we ultimately &#8220;wrestle not against flesh and blood.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama&#8217;s Name Dropping by Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/05/obama-name-dropping/comment-page-1/#comment-32402</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/?p=20357#comment-32402</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d prefer the next President elevates the office of the Presidency beyond this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d prefer the next President elevates the office of the Presidency beyond this.</p>
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