Dan Kimball, the pastor of Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, CA just posted on “If you think I’m going to hell, you should care that I’m going to hell.”  Great post and worth a read.

Share this post :

27 comments
  1. I really liked Kimball’s study on the words used for hell – actually I would be interested to read the whole paper or sermon he wrote. What seems to be lacking in the blog is what ‘that all means to anyone reading the bible’? Hell can be as real as a star in the sky – but what does it mean? What is it’s use? Where is it’s use – here or later? Etc.

    As for the debate on the site – I think there is some interesting people out there who have not thought out what they are saying on this issue. I really loved Progression of Faith’s comments – he or she was very articulate and had some good hope for what this faith needs to look like and forward to.

    I am not sure hell (as an eternal place of torment) is real. For me, there is one huge problem with that idea (and how it ties to belief) and it has to do with real life. If God can forgive as much as I can, which I am supposing he can and way more, there are a lot of people I know who don’t foillow the Christian formula that are easily forgiveable. Shoould they all go to hell for not following the formula or because God cannot forgive someone as much as a mere human can? I thought about this a while back – and I think God puts that on us – ‘who we forgive will be forgiven’.

  2. I really liked Kimball’s study on the words used for hell – actually I would be interested to read the whole paper or sermon he wrote. What seems to be lacking in the blog is what ‘that all means to anyone reading the bible’? Hell can be as real as a star in the sky – but what does it mean? What is it’s use? Where is it’s use – here or later? Etc.

    As for the debate on the site – I think there is some interesting people out there who have not thought out what they are saying on this issue. I really loved Progression of Faith’s comments – he or she was very articulate and had some good hope for what this faith needs to look like and forward to.

    I am not sure hell (as an eternal place of torment) is real. For me, there is one huge problem with that idea (and how it ties to belief) and it has to do with real life. If God can forgive as much as I can, which I am supposing he can and way more, there are a lot of people I know who don’t foillow the Christian formula that are easily forgiveable. Shoould they all go to hell for not following the formula or because God cannot forgive someone as much as a mere human can? I thought about this a while back – and I think God puts that on us – ‘who we forgive will be forgiven’.

  3. I really liked Kimball’s study on the words used for hell – actually I would be interested to read the whole paper or sermon he wrote. What seems to be lacking in the blog is what ‘that all means to anyone reading the bible’? Hell can be as real as a star in the sky – but what does it mean? What is it’s use? Where is it’s use – here or later? Etc.

    As for the debate on the site – I think there is some interesting people out there who have not thought out what they are saying on this issue. I really loved Progression of Faith’s comments – he or she was very articulate and had some good hope for what this faith needs to look like and forward to.

    I am not sure hell (as an eternal place of torment) is real. For me, there is one huge problem with that idea (and how it ties to belief) and it has to do with real life. If God can forgive as much as I can, which I am supposing he can and way more, there are a lot of people I know who don’t foillow the Christian formula that are easily forgiveable. Shoould they all go to hell for not following the formula or because God cannot forgive someone as much as a mere human can? I thought about this a while back – and I think God puts that on us – ‘who we forgive will be forgiven’.

  4. I really liked Kimball’s study on the words used for hell – actually I would be interested to read the whole paper or sermon he wrote. What seems to be lacking in the blog is what ‘that all means to anyone reading the bible’? Hell can be as real as a star in the sky – but what does it mean? What is it’s use? Where is it’s use – here or later? Etc.

    As for the debate on the site – I think there is some interesting people out there who have not thought out what they are saying on this issue. I really loved Progression of Faith’s comments – he or she was very articulate and had some good hope for what this faith needs to look like and forward to.

    I am not sure hell (as an eternal place of torment) is real. For me, there is one huge problem with that idea (and how it ties to belief) and it has to do with real life. If God can forgive as much as I can, which I am supposing he can and way more, there are a lot of people I know who don’t foillow the Christian formula that are easily forgiveable. Shoould they all go to hell for not following the formula or because God cannot forgive someone as much as a mere human can? I thought about this a while back – and I think God puts that on us – ‘who we forgive will be forgiven’.

  5. Society – You wouldn’t be the first to struggle with the concept of hell.

    In your mind they may be easily forgiveable, but the Bible does talk of a response on our part. God is love and God is just. He doesn’t send those to hell who don’t belong there if He did that would make Him unjust. Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable? Do we know the thoughts and intentions of their heart like God does? Do we know their future and their past like he does? (These are just rhetorical questions.) I would say no – if we did that would make us omniscient which we clearly are not.

    God is the only One who is qualified to judge and I have to trust that His judgement is just. When you refer to Jesus words – “who we forgive will be forgiven” is talking about human forgiveness and the restoration of relationships. We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that. Just like you could not forgive somebody who wronged me – you wouldn’t have the right to do that.

  6. Society – You wouldn’t be the first to struggle with the concept of hell.

    In your mind they may be easily forgiveable, but the Bible does talk of a response on our part. God is love and God is just. He doesn’t send those to hell who don’t belong there if He did that would make Him unjust. Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable? Do we know the thoughts and intentions of their heart like God does? Do we know their future and their past like he does? (These are just rhetorical questions.) I would say no – if we did that would make us omniscient which we clearly are not.

    God is the only One who is qualified to judge and I have to trust that His judgement is just. When you refer to Jesus words – “who we forgive will be forgiven” is talking about human forgiveness and the restoration of relationships. We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that. Just like you could not forgive somebody who wronged me – you wouldn’t have the right to do that.

  7. Society – You wouldn’t be the first to struggle with the concept of hell.

    In your mind they may be easily forgiveable, but the Bible does talk of a response on our part. God is love and God is just. He doesn’t send those to hell who don’t belong there if He did that would make Him unjust. Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable? Do we know the thoughts and intentions of their heart like God does? Do we know their future and their past like he does? (These are just rhetorical questions.) I would say no – if we did that would make us omniscient which we clearly are not.

    God is the only One who is qualified to judge and I have to trust that His judgement is just. When you refer to Jesus words – “who we forgive will be forgiven” is talking about human forgiveness and the restoration of relationships. We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that. Just like you could not forgive somebody who wronged me – you wouldn’t have the right to do that.

  8. Society – You wouldn’t be the first to struggle with the concept of hell.

    In your mind they may be easily forgiveable, but the Bible does talk of a response on our part. God is love and God is just. He doesn’t send those to hell who don’t belong there if He did that would make Him unjust. Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable? Do we know the thoughts and intentions of their heart like God does? Do we know their future and their past like he does? (These are just rhetorical questions.) I would say no – if we did that would make us omniscient which we clearly are not.

    God is the only One who is qualified to judge and I have to trust that His judgement is just. When you refer to Jesus words – “who we forgive will be forgiven” is talking about human forgiveness and the restoration of relationships. We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that. Just like you could not forgive somebody who wronged me – you wouldn’t have the right to do that.

  9. “We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that.” (Shane)

    I would be quite interested in what would be an offense to God that wouldn’t also be an offense to us?

  10. “We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that.” (Shane)

    I would be quite interested in what would be an offense to God that wouldn’t also be an offense to us?

  11. “We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that.” (Shane)

    I would be quite interested in what would be an offense to God that wouldn’t also be an offense to us?

  12. “We can not forgive an offense to God only He can do that.” (Shane)

    I would be quite interested in what would be an offense to God that wouldn’t also be an offense to us?

  13. “Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable?” (Shane)

    If this is so then I will also have to say it is quite possible ‘who are we to make a 100% certain call on God’s words?’ (ie: they are not our words). But this is the premise 100% of all churches on the planet are built upon – that the bible is accurate and we have it correctly divided up – that can’t be – we are not God nor do we ‘know His mind’.

    You mention unbelief as a sin only God can forgive. We actually don’t know that now do we? I am not sure unbelief is even a sin since it not expressly part of the 10 commandments nor the law for that matter. It’s kind of funny cause what if someone didn’t believe a single word you were saying – would you think that is a sin – or just stupid of the other to do? And not believing is never expressed by Jesus as the problem but a symptom of further problems.

    Lust is an interesting one also – how is this an offence to God again? Is God a man or a woman? Lust, is I am not mistaken, is a pre-cursor to committing an action against another person for sexual pleasure – and even if lust is something we need to deal with – it actually does nothing to God per se (our ideas are towards other flesh). I actually have studied that passage by Jesus in some depth – I am not sure Jesus is not saying it won;t happen (these thoughts) – but that if we develop them they will become an action.

    My 2 cents.

  14. “Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable?” (Shane)

    If this is so then I will also have to say it is quite possible ‘who are we to make a 100% certain call on God’s words?’ (ie: they are not our words). But this is the premise 100% of all churches on the planet are built upon – that the bible is accurate and we have it correctly divided up – that can’t be – we are not God nor do we ‘know His mind’.

    You mention unbelief as a sin only God can forgive. We actually don’t know that now do we? I am not sure unbelief is even a sin since it not expressly part of the 10 commandments nor the law for that matter. It’s kind of funny cause what if someone didn’t believe a single word you were saying – would you think that is a sin – or just stupid of the other to do? And not believing is never expressed by Jesus as the problem but a symptom of further problems.

    Lust is an interesting one also – how is this an offence to God again? Is God a man or a woman? Lust, is I am not mistaken, is a pre-cursor to committing an action against another person for sexual pleasure – and even if lust is something we need to deal with – it actually does nothing to God per se (our ideas are towards other flesh). I actually have studied that passage by Jesus in some depth – I am not sure Jesus is not saying it won;t happen (these thoughts) – but that if we develop them they will become an action.

    My 2 cents.

  15. “Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable?” (Shane)

    If this is so then I will also have to say it is quite possible ‘who are we to make a 100% certain call on God’s words?’ (ie: they are not our words). But this is the premise 100% of all churches on the planet are built upon – that the bible is accurate and we have it correctly divided up – that can’t be – we are not God nor do we ‘know His mind’.

    You mention unbelief as a sin only God can forgive. We actually don’t know that now do we? I am not sure unbelief is even a sin since it not expressly part of the 10 commandments nor the law for that matter. It’s kind of funny cause what if someone didn’t believe a single word you were saying – would you think that is a sin – or just stupid of the other to do? And not believing is never expressed by Jesus as the problem but a symptom of further problems.

    Lust is an interesting one also – how is this an offence to God again? Is God a man or a woman? Lust, is I am not mistaken, is a pre-cursor to committing an action against another person for sexual pleasure – and even if lust is something we need to deal with – it actually does nothing to God per se (our ideas are towards other flesh). I actually have studied that passage by Jesus in some depth – I am not sure Jesus is not saying it won;t happen (these thoughts) – but that if we develop them they will become an action.

    My 2 cents.

  16. “Since their sin is not so much an offense to us (unless it is done to us directly) as it is to Him are we really in a place to say they are easily forgivable?” (Shane)

    If this is so then I will also have to say it is quite possible ‘who are we to make a 100% certain call on God’s words?’ (ie: they are not our words). But this is the premise 100% of all churches on the planet are built upon – that the bible is accurate and we have it correctly divided up – that can’t be – we are not God nor do we ‘know His mind’.

    You mention unbelief as a sin only God can forgive. We actually don’t know that now do we? I am not sure unbelief is even a sin since it not expressly part of the 10 commandments nor the law for that matter. It’s kind of funny cause what if someone didn’t believe a single word you were saying – would you think that is a sin – or just stupid of the other to do? And not believing is never expressed by Jesus as the problem but a symptom of further problems.

    Lust is an interesting one also – how is this an offence to God again? Is God a man or a woman? Lust, is I am not mistaken, is a pre-cursor to committing an action against another person for sexual pleasure – and even if lust is something we need to deal with – it actually does nothing to God per se (our ideas are towards other flesh). I actually have studied that passage by Jesus in some depth – I am not sure Jesus is not saying it won;t happen (these thoughts) – but that if we develop them they will become an action.

    My 2 cents.

  17. Yeah we could go round and round on this – when I say “unbelief” I mean denying Jesus and His word – which I think is the root of many problems and sins – not just a symptom.

    With lust I’ll just refer you to Jesus’ words in Matthew 5. Also I don’t think appreciating beauty and lust are the same thing. A wise man once said (and I don’t remember who), “you can’t keep a bird from landing on your head, but you can keep him from building a nest.

  18. Yeah we could go round and round on this – when I say “unbelief” I mean denying Jesus and His word – which I think is the root of many problems and sins – not just a symptom.

    With lust I’ll just refer you to Jesus’ words in Matthew 5. Also I don’t think appreciating beauty and lust are the same thing. A wise man once said (and I don’t remember who), “you can’t keep a bird from landing on your head, but you can keep him from building a nest.

  19. Yeah we could go round and round on this – when I say “unbelief” I mean denying Jesus and His word – which I think is the root of many problems and sins – not just a symptom.

    With lust I’ll just refer you to Jesus’ words in Matthew 5. Also I don’t think appreciating beauty and lust are the same thing. A wise man once said (and I don’t remember who), “you can’t keep a bird from landing on your head, but you can keep him from building a nest.

  20. Yeah we could go round and round on this – when I say “unbelief” I mean denying Jesus and His word – which I think is the root of many problems and sins – not just a symptom.

    With lust I’ll just refer you to Jesus’ words in Matthew 5. Also I don’t think appreciating beauty and lust are the same thing. A wise man once said (and I don’t remember who), “you can’t keep a bird from landing on your head, but you can keep him from building a nest.

Comments are closed.

Get CT In Your Inbox!

Don't miss a single update.

You May Also Like

Organs without Consent? Has There Ever Been Informed Consent?

Proposal: All New Yorkers Become Organ Donors Assemblyman Brodsky Earlier Introduced a…

Taxpayer Bailouts

Justin Taylor interviewed David Kotter regarding our current banking crisis.  With the…

California Primary Results: Predictable

The race for the Governor’s seat in California will be fought between…

Abolishing the IRS – The FairTax

I am just learning about the FairTax plan, and the more I…