John Piper is dead on and doesn’t pull any punches.  I too hate the prosperity gospel and how it perverts the true gospel.

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s

HT: Brian Eberly

30 comments
  1. Last night was one of those times when God keeps me awake, stirs me, rips my heart, pours passion into furthest corners of my soul, and revives me all over again. This post was a perfect addition to this time of stretching, growth, and grace.

    Thanks.

  2. Last night was one of those times when God keeps me awake, stirs me, rips my heart, pours passion into furthest corners of my soul, and revives me all over again. This post was a perfect addition to this time of stretching, growth, and grace.

    Thanks.

  3. Last night was one of those times when God keeps me awake, stirs me, rips my heart, pours passion into furthest corners of my soul, and revives me all over again. This post was a perfect addition to this time of stretching, growth, and grace.

    Thanks.

  4. Aye, Piper does say it so well its a BIG AMEN from me. What’s sad is that there are many who listen to this prosperity gospel and think it’s fine.

    I wrote about the prosperity gospel a few times and had defendants of the message tell me that Jesus had expensive clothes that’s why the Roman soldiers wanted them.

    How dangerous is that?!

  5. Aye, Piper does say it so well its a BIG AMEN from me. What’s sad is that there are many who listen to this prosperity gospel and think it’s fine.

    I wrote about the prosperity gospel a few times and had defendants of the message tell me that Jesus had expensive clothes that’s why the Roman soldiers wanted them.

    How dangerous is that?!

  6. Aye, Piper does say it so well its a BIG AMEN from me. What’s sad is that there are many who listen to this prosperity gospel and think it’s fine.

    I wrote about the prosperity gospel a few times and had defendants of the message tell me that Jesus had expensive clothes that’s why the Roman soldiers wanted them.

    How dangerous is that?!

  7. Interesting – it raises some good points. I am not a big fan of the sentence he uses to make the point – about God being happy for the death of a little girl (tragedy) – not the best example in my opinion. However, I dislike the prosperity gospel also – it’s a huge misrepresentation of the scriptures.

    As for suffering being the litmus test for God’s glory – there is some of that in the teachings of Jesus (agreed) – but if we read the beatitudes list – it’s 2 of like 10 in there. And then persecution would come from where? People that dislike you for what you do.

    The example given is not something someone did – the death of the little girl – it was a tragedy and I fail to see God’s happiness in that? That was a crummy example to say the least.

    I would like to contend if a Christian wants to find out what Jesus means in being persecuted – well challenge some of the orthodox teachings around you and find out. I would say the trinity is a good place to start. I will bet in the challenges raised we see holistic communities turn un-holisitic and treat someone quite rudely (even persecute them) – for a simple belief.

    This is the same pattern we see in Jesus as he challenges some of the structure of his day – and almost all of his arguments are with leadership. Who persecutes who is the big question? Maybe the structure that defends God will go over the line to also defend it’s own walls?

  8. Interesting – it raises some good points. I am not a big fan of the sentence he uses to make the point – about God being happy for the death of a little girl (tragedy) – not the best example in my opinion. However, I dislike the prosperity gospel also – it’s a huge misrepresentation of the scriptures.

    As for suffering being the litmus test for God’s glory – there is some of that in the teachings of Jesus (agreed) – but if we read the beatitudes list – it’s 2 of like 10 in there. And then persecution would come from where? People that dislike you for what you do.

    The example given is not something someone did – the death of the little girl – it was a tragedy and I fail to see God’s happiness in that? That was a crummy example to say the least.

    I would like to contend if a Christian wants to find out what Jesus means in being persecuted – well challenge some of the orthodox teachings around you and find out. I would say the trinity is a good place to start. I will bet in the challenges raised we see holistic communities turn un-holisitic and treat someone quite rudely (even persecute them) – for a simple belief.

    This is the same pattern we see in Jesus as he challenges some of the structure of his day – and almost all of his arguments are with leadership. Who persecutes who is the big question? Maybe the structure that defends God will go over the line to also defend it’s own walls?

  9. Interesting – it raises some good points. I am not a big fan of the sentence he uses to make the point – about God being happy for the death of a little girl (tragedy) – not the best example in my opinion. However, I dislike the prosperity gospel also – it’s a huge misrepresentation of the scriptures.

    As for suffering being the litmus test for God’s glory – there is some of that in the teachings of Jesus (agreed) – but if we read the beatitudes list – it’s 2 of like 10 in there. And then persecution would come from where? People that dislike you for what you do.

    The example given is not something someone did – the death of the little girl – it was a tragedy and I fail to see God’s happiness in that? That was a crummy example to say the least.

    I would like to contend if a Christian wants to find out what Jesus means in being persecuted – well challenge some of the orthodox teachings around you and find out. I would say the trinity is a good place to start. I will bet in the challenges raised we see holistic communities turn un-holisitic and treat someone quite rudely (even persecute them) – for a simple belief.

    This is the same pattern we see in Jesus as he challenges some of the structure of his day – and almost all of his arguments are with leadership. Who persecutes who is the big question? Maybe the structure that defends God will go over the line to also defend it’s own walls?

  10. Hey society – I wouldn’t equate what you’ve gone through as persecution. That isn’t to say how you have been treated is good either. Though if I were your pastor and say you were a leader challenging orthodox teachings I would challenge your theology – hopefully doing so in love, but challenging you none the less.

    There is a difference with modern day challenging of structure (and I’m not saying some of it doesn’t need to be challenged) and with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.

    The persecution that Piper is talking about is what you see in the Middle East, India, China, North Korea and other places where believers are losing their livelihood, their freedom, and their lives.

    With his example I think he was thinking of one of the worst possible situations a parent could think of – the death of a child. That would be horrible to me, but even in that God is there. I can still be satisfied in Him in the midst of my grief.

  11. Hey society – I wouldn’t equate what you’ve gone through as persecution. That isn’t to say how you have been treated is good either. Though if I were your pastor and say you were a leader challenging orthodox teachings I would challenge your theology – hopefully doing so in love, but challenging you none the less.

    There is a difference with modern day challenging of structure (and I’m not saying some of it doesn’t need to be challenged) and with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.

    The persecution that Piper is talking about is what you see in the Middle East, India, China, North Korea and other places where believers are losing their livelihood, their freedom, and their lives.

    With his example I think he was thinking of one of the worst possible situations a parent could think of – the death of a child. That would be horrible to me, but even in that God is there. I can still be satisfied in Him in the midst of my grief.

  12. Hey society – I wouldn’t equate what you’ve gone through as persecution. That isn’t to say how you have been treated is good either. Though if I were your pastor and say you were a leader challenging orthodox teachings I would challenge your theology – hopefully doing so in love, but challenging you none the less.

    There is a difference with modern day challenging of structure (and I’m not saying some of it doesn’t need to be challenged) and with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.

    The persecution that Piper is talking about is what you see in the Middle East, India, China, North Korea and other places where believers are losing their livelihood, their freedom, and their lives.

    With his example I think he was thinking of one of the worst possible situations a parent could think of – the death of a child. That would be horrible to me, but even in that God is there. I can still be satisfied in Him in the midst of my grief.

  13. “with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.” (Shane)

    You just saying that or you gonna prove it? I don’tbelieve Jesus was or is God and I base this solely on the scriptures and nothing more. Because if he is God – then most of what we do is a waste of time in my opinion.

    As for the analogy – it was a tad harsh and over the line. The suffering and death of a girl is used to support someone who suffers for her – although the point is valid – to say ‘God is blessed when the little girl flies through the windshield…’ is kinda…strange. Maybe the example is kind of extreme – I will have to listen to it again.

  14. “with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.” (Shane)

    You just saying that or you gonna prove it? I don’tbelieve Jesus was or is God and I base this solely on the scriptures and nothing more. Because if he is God – then most of what we do is a waste of time in my opinion.

    As for the analogy – it was a tad harsh and over the line. The suffering and death of a girl is used to support someone who suffers for her – although the point is valid – to say ‘God is blessed when the little girl flies through the windshield…’ is kinda…strange. Maybe the example is kind of extreme – I will have to listen to it again.

  15. “with Jesus challenging the religious leaders of that era. He’s God.” (Shane)

    You just saying that or you gonna prove it? I don’tbelieve Jesus was or is God and I base this solely on the scriptures and nothing more. Because if he is God – then most of what we do is a waste of time in my opinion.

    As for the analogy – it was a tad harsh and over the line. The suffering and death of a girl is used to support someone who suffers for her – although the point is valid – to say ‘God is blessed when the little girl flies through the windshield…’ is kinda…strange. Maybe the example is kind of extreme – I will have to listen to it again.

  16. Society – man… I’m not going to debate that with you (Christ’s divinity) since that isn’t the topic of this post. I can’t possibly see how you see that in scripture, but you have a right to your opinion.

    I think his example was meant to get our attention. Notice though, no one is saying that it is good for that to happen. It is tragic, and listening to another version of this (since this came from a sermon that has been edited), he is referencing an actual accident that happened in his community shortly before he preached.

  17. Society – man… I’m not going to debate that with you (Christ’s divinity) since that isn’t the topic of this post. I can’t possibly see how you see that in scripture, but you have a right to your opinion.

    I think his example was meant to get our attention. Notice though, no one is saying that it is good for that to happen. It is tragic, and listening to another version of this (since this came from a sermon that has been edited), he is referencing an actual accident that happened in his community shortly before he preached.

  18. Society – man… I’m not going to debate that with you (Christ’s divinity) since that isn’t the topic of this post. I can’t possibly see how you see that in scripture, but you have a right to your opinion.

    I think his example was meant to get our attention. Notice though, no one is saying that it is good for that to happen. It is tragic, and listening to another version of this (since this came from a sermon that has been edited), he is referencing an actual accident that happened in his community shortly before he preached.

  19. That video makes me sick everytime I see it.

    I’m no fan of prosperity Gospel, but how is Piper’s manipulative Gospel message any better? His Gospel also relies on a consumer mentality based on the same transactional model. Follow God and you get something in return, and in addition you should follow God because he is powerful and demands it. Piper plays on irrational fear and guilt just like Olsteen plays on prosperity.

    What kind of God is this they both create who minuplates people like puppets? That isn’t God and it isn’t consistent with the message of Jesus.

    Here is my take on the video

  20. That video makes me sick everytime I see it.

    I’m no fan of prosperity Gospel, but how is Piper’s manipulative Gospel message any better? His Gospel also relies on a consumer mentality based on the same transactional model. Follow God and you get something in return, and in addition you should follow God because he is powerful and demands it. Piper plays on irrational fear and guilt just like Olsteen plays on prosperity.

    What kind of God is this they both create who minuplates people like puppets? That isn’t God and it isn’t consistent with the message of Jesus.

    Here is my take on the video

  21. That video makes me sick everytime I see it.

    I’m no fan of prosperity Gospel, but how is Piper’s manipulative Gospel message any better? His Gospel also relies on a consumer mentality based on the same transactional model. Follow God and you get something in return, and in addition you should follow God because he is powerful and demands it. Piper plays on irrational fear and guilt just like Olsteen plays on prosperity.

    What kind of God is this they both create who minuplates people like puppets? That isn’t God and it isn’t consistent with the message of Jesus.

    Here is my take on the video

  22. Progressive faith… I guess I’m not sure what is manipulative about what Piper preaches. Calling it a transactional model I think is an error.

    Romans 6:23 says that “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” We have a choice life or death. We deserve death, but God is merciful and provided a way of reconciliation with Him through Jesus’ death and resurrection.

    Romans 10:9 says, “if we confess with our mouths, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, then we will be saved.”

    John 3 is another passage to look at among, many, many others.

    I don’t know what “gospel” you are putting forth, but it isn’t the Gospel.

    God doesn’t manipulate, He gives us free will to choose. He doesn’t force us to choose. He has given us a way of salvation through Jesus. It is His gift to us. Whether we accept it or not, that is our responsibility.

  23. Progressive faith… I guess I’m not sure what is manipulative about what Piper preaches. Calling it a transactional model I think is an error.

    Romans 6:23 says that “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” We have a choice life or death. We deserve death, but God is merciful and provided a way of reconciliation with Him through Jesus’ death and resurrection.

    Romans 10:9 says, “if we confess with our mouths, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, then we will be saved.”

    John 3 is another passage to look at among, many, many others.

    I don’t know what “gospel” you are putting forth, but it isn’t the Gospel.

    God doesn’t manipulate, He gives us free will to choose. He doesn’t force us to choose. He has given us a way of salvation through Jesus. It is His gift to us. Whether we accept it or not, that is our responsibility.

  24. Progressive faith… I guess I’m not sure what is manipulative about what Piper preaches. Calling it a transactional model I think is an error.

    Romans 6:23 says that “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” We have a choice life or death. We deserve death, but God is merciful and provided a way of reconciliation with Him through Jesus’ death and resurrection.

    Romans 10:9 says, “if we confess with our mouths, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, then we will be saved.”

    John 3 is another passage to look at among, many, many others.

    I don’t know what “gospel” you are putting forth, but it isn’t the Gospel.

    God doesn’t manipulate, He gives us free will to choose. He doesn’t force us to choose. He has given us a way of salvation through Jesus. It is His gift to us. Whether we accept it or not, that is our responsibility.

  25. I’m not suggesting his message doesn’t have references in the bible that can support it. I’m suggesting the idea is manipulative. Believe the right things and you get heaven. Don’t believe, or believe the wrong things, and you get hell. That is clear manipulation even if it was absolutely true.

    I’m also not suggesting that manipulation is always bad. My point is that Piper and those prosperity preachers are both using manipulation to motivate certain responses. So was Paul to a lesser extent. You might even make a case for the author of John’s gospel. He places some very manipulative things in the mouth of Jesus that the other writers did not.

    Manipulation isn’t new. It is in all religions. Christians got it from the Jews. Genocide and destruction of whole cities because they didn’t belong to the correct religous group or disobeyed God is a very manipulative story to tell your children. It works. Many take the bait as Piper has done.

  26. I’m not suggesting his message doesn’t have references in the bible that can support it. I’m suggesting the idea is manipulative. Believe the right things and you get heaven. Don’t believe, or believe the wrong things, and you get hell. That is clear manipulation even if it was absolutely true.

    I’m also not suggesting that manipulation is always bad. My point is that Piper and those prosperity preachers are both using manipulation to motivate certain responses. So was Paul to a lesser extent. You might even make a case for the author of John’s gospel. He places some very manipulative things in the mouth of Jesus that the other writers did not.

    Manipulation isn’t new. It is in all religions. Christians got it from the Jews. Genocide and destruction of whole cities because they didn’t belong to the correct religous group or disobeyed God is a very manipulative story to tell your children. It works. Many take the bait as Piper has done.

  27. I’m not suggesting his message doesn’t have references in the bible that can support it. I’m suggesting the idea is manipulative. Believe the right things and you get heaven. Don’t believe, or believe the wrong things, and you get hell. That is clear manipulation even if it was absolutely true.

    I’m also not suggesting that manipulation is always bad. My point is that Piper and those prosperity preachers are both using manipulation to motivate certain responses. So was Paul to a lesser extent. You might even make a case for the author of John’s gospel. He places some very manipulative things in the mouth of Jesus that the other writers did not.

    Manipulation isn’t new. It is in all religions. Christians got it from the Jews. Genocide and destruction of whole cities because they didn’t belong to the correct religous group or disobeyed God is a very manipulative story to tell your children. It works. Many take the bait as Piper has done.

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