I referred to a question a few days ago that Mark Driscoll asked in his book, Vintage Jesus: Timeless Answers to Timely Questions, ultimately everybody answers the question of who Jesus is and responds in kind.

There is so much conjecture and opinion.  SocietyVS – a regular visitor to this blog said:

I see Jesus as the Christ – Messiah – at the right hand of God in His court – but not God.

A new friend, Steve, responded:

So what do you do with Isaiah?

He said some interesting things about the Messiah:

“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)

And what do you do with John?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1)

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…” (John 1:14)

If the Bible is any good at all, the conclusion is inescapable.

What does Jesus have to say about Himself.  A walk through the Gospels we can see that Jesus claims to be God in numerous ways.  Driscoll mentions ten.  I am going to list the first five in this post.

1.  Jesus said He came down from Heaven.

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me, (John 6:38, ESV).

If you read John 6:41-66 you will see that this comment got Him into trouble with the Pharisees, and confounded his own disciples.

2.  Jesus said He was more than just a good man.

A lot of people will say that Jesus is a good teacher and that He (they wouldn’t capitalize he) was a good man.  They tried saying this back in His day as well.

And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”  And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone, (Mark 10:17-18, ESV).

Jesus healed on the Sabbath and that really infuriated the Pharisees.  He also called God his Father and that also put Him on their “bad” list.

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God, (John 5:18, ESV).

3. Jesus said He is the Son of Man.

Jesus uses this title around 80 times in all four Gospels.  This is a title that we see in the book of Daniel.

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.  He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed, (Daniel 7:13-14, NIV).

This passage indicates that he isn’t human.  He is given messianic dominion and authority.  This person is worshiped.  David speaks of this person is Psalm 110.

The Lord says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

The Lord sends forth from Zion
your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!
Your people will offer themselves freely
on the day of your power,
in holy garments;
from the womb of the morning,
the dew of your youth will be yours.
The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever
after the order of Melchizedek.”

The Lord is at your right hand;
he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.
He will execute judgment among the nations,
filling them with corpses;
he will shatter chiefs
over the wide earth.
He will drink from the brook by the way;
therefore he will lift up his head.

4.  Jesus performed miracles.

Driscoll states, “Jesus was a great leader and teacher, but his ministry also included the miraculous – one line of evidence that he was in fact God and more than just another spiritually enlightened person,” (pg. 20).  Jesus says to those challenging Him to view these miracles as evidence.

Do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”  Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands, (John 10:36-39, ESV).

Nearly forty specific miracles are mentioned in the New Testament and nearly a third of the Gospel of Mark deals with His miracles.

5.  Jesus said He is God.

Many cults wrongly deny Jesus’ divinity.  But Scripture clearly illustrate how Jesus said he is God.  His hearers understood his claim.

But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?”  And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”  And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need?  You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death, (Mark 14:61-64, ESV).

Also we see in John 8.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, (John 8:58-59, ESV).

When Jesus names himself “I am,” he was declaring himself to be the same God who revealed himself by the title “I AM”.  In John 10 we see that the Pharisees wanted to stone him for blasphemy.  Why?  Because they understood Jesus was saying that He was God.

 

justify”>So before we make up our minds and say that Jesus isn’t God we really have to closely examine what He said about Himself.  I hope that you will do just that and check out the next post.

7 comments
  1. I love it – I must respond – the gauntlet has been thrown down (lol). Beware – Trinity in full question.

    “1. Jesus said He came down from Heaven” (Shane)

    That’s not proof he is God – but is ‘from God’. I have stated it clearly that Jesus was created by God and was in the court of God all along – as the Messiah. Now He was ‘sent’ – sent people – sent! That speaks volumes.

    “2. Jesus said He was more than just a good man” (Shane)

    This one is actually kind of funny – because Jesus in that passage ‘why do you call me good’? Jesus is actually pointing out the very idea he is not God – or at the very least asking the question to point the honor to God for what ‘teaching’ he is doing and this is not of himself. Same thing we do with Jesus in most churches when asked ‘wow you are a good person’.

    “Jesus healed on the Sabbath and that really infuriated the Pharisees. He also called God his Father and that also put Him on their “bad” list.” (Shane)

    John actually is the only gospel that explicitly points to Jesus as God – depending on one’s interpretation of the majority of what is written – but it is there. It makes me wonder about the veracity of that book from a Jewish viewpoint – or if a Jewish writer actually wrote it.

    The term God is Father – actually had existed in rabbincal circles already and was basically a term about God and nation of Israel – God cared for them. Now when Jesus uses it – it’s actually not much different at all – but for some odd reason John 5:18 makes it seem like this is very problematic – and maybe it was – maybe the people did not see Jesus as a rabbi or anyone important (so his claims offended some).

    However, the fact Jesus calls God ‘Father’ is also clue to the idea Jesus is not claiming equality with God. When Jesus prays the ‘Our Father’ – he calls God Father there also – alongside everyone else (which was the way the term is used in John)…but he is praying to God (if he is God then no need to pray to God).

    “3. Jesus said He is the Son of Man.” (Shane)
    The son of man is also a created position by God – that does not appear until the prophet Daniel – some odd 1200 years after Moses’ writings (the Torah). It’s not an original idea from the Torah. Irregardless, this line seals the deal ‘He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power…” – Uhm, yeah – he is not the ‘Ancient of Days’ and is ‘given’ everything he becomes – so how is he God?

    Let me point out the absolute obvious fallacy going on here – Christians using Jewish texts (which they still study and live by) to proclaim Jesus is God – Tanakh passages are the proof (this includes the Isaiah idea from Steve also). It’s plain and simple wrong by inclusion of interpretation from a Jewish viewpoint (the rabbinical scholars). It is true, some of these passages are seen messianicly and have some importance on that level. Problem is, they are never seen as messianicly in the sense the ‘son of man’ would be equal to God – that is foreign to Jewish interpretation of the passages – so we obviously in Christian circles have ‘added it in’ – because it can not be found in Jewish circles at all.

    “This passage indicates that he isn’t human. He is given messianic dominion and authority. This person is worshiped. David speaks of this person is Psalm 110.” (Shane)

    Okay, another passage from the Tanakh (Psalm 110) – the question is beyond obvious – if Jewish people, who still study this and have in the past, do not ever arrive at this conclusion (Messiah is God) from a reading of the text (even when they see Messiah in it) – how is it we can even so much as use that as proof?

    But for those who will not listen to line 1 of my argument ‘hear this’: “The Lord says to my Lord” (vs.1) – That line in Hebrew actually can read ‘God/Adonai said to my master/lord’…and has always been viewed by Jewish rabbi’s to mean something in that vein of thinking – based solely on the Hebrew and context. David see’s someone as his master – that is below God on that scale of glory. Worshipped or not, he was ‘sent’ by the Lord/Adonai – ‘The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter’ – God still ordains the Messiah as ‘some authority’ which is the most common theme in all of the gospels and Tanakh passages on this idea of the ‘Messiah’ – that God sends him.

    “4. Jesus performed miracles” (Shane)

    If miracles were entrance into Godhood – then Elijah and Elisha have the market cornered first and foremost. However, neither Elijah not Elisha ever became gods or anything even remotely close – they were prophets of God – empowered by God. Even Elijah went up in a chariot of fire to God (like the ascension) and never was Elijah ever given god status. He was seen as a person blessed by God.
    Jesus actually is seen doing the same miracles of Elijah in many instances – even to the point where people are asking ‘is this Elijah’? Miracles or not proof of Godhood – they are just proof God is working with someone – anointed them even one could say.

    “5. Jesus said He is God” (Shane)

    In the Mark passage, and in all the other gospels concerning this same scene, Jesus claims to be the Messiah – that is the actual charge. However, there is a problem with seeing this scene as Jesus claiming to be God – cause then the High Priest would be accurate to call for blasphemy – cause Jesus would be breaking the great commandment. However, does not the passages about the Messiah point out ‘his innocence like that of a sheep’?

    Jesus had to have been innocent in that trial on all accounts he was blamed for – to be considered the Messiah…and the charge he was given was ‘blasphemy’. Is Jesus innocent of even this charge? I think so. Jesus does claim to be the Messiah – a piece he takes from Daniel in his answer – but I would contend he is innocent of the charge (since he had to be sinless) of blasphemy – and the court bonded the 2 in a rush to judgement.

    John 8 can be seen as a direct statement – that Jesus is God. I choose not to see John in that regards – but more word association in the use of the ‘I am’ statements. Jesus is stating he is clearly close to God – no doubt – however John either crosses the line and calls him God (only gospel to do so then) or is doing something unique with the wording.

    One has to remember Caesar was seen as the ‘son of God’ also and there is a unique comparison going on here from John’s book – about Jesus and Rome. I think John is making the point that Caesar is not the ‘son of God’ and Jesus is the ‘son of God’ – in that Jesus is the one to be followed and is close to God (actual representative). It was being written in the context of convincing Gentile believers (and anyone else) that Rome was not to be worshipped – and to make this stand would mean your life – but it was backed by good evidence – the life of Jesus.

    I personally do not know what to think of John to be honest – if you ask me it reads like a Gentile piece of work – using Jewish terminology – and at times – confusing the actual intents of the Jewish terms for more literal readings. If Jesus is God through and through as the Messiah – then why isn’t this idea backed from all over the place – and the only reference for Jesus being God comes from John’s gospel – and even within that gospel it gets contradictory on the same issue:

    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser” (John 15:1) – Jesus is the vine/plant and God is the vinedresser/gardener…yeah – totally different roles given by Jesus of himself and God. Almost as if, wait, yes – God is in charge of this whole thing.

    “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3) – Firstly, this is Jesus’ prayer to God. Jesus calls God ‘the Only true God’ – and that Jesus was ‘sent’ from Him. Jesus is not explaining how he and God are ‘One’ – no – he states clearly that God is the only God here – but also that all power and glory Jesus contains – comes directly from God’s anointing.

    Clear cut and obvious – I think not.

  2. I love it – I must respond – the gauntlet has been thrown down (lol). Beware – Trinity in full question.

    “1. Jesus said He came down from Heaven” (Shane)

    That’s not proof he is God – but is ‘from God’. I have stated it clearly that Jesus was created by God and was in the court of God all along – as the Messiah. Now He was ‘sent’ – sent people – sent! That speaks volumes.

    “2. Jesus said He was more than just a good man” (Shane)

    This one is actually kind of funny – because Jesus in that passage ‘why do you call me good’? Jesus is actually pointing out the very idea he is not God – or at the very least asking the question to point the honor to God for what ‘teaching’ he is doing and this is not of himself. Same thing we do with Jesus in most churches when asked ‘wow you are a good person’.

    “Jesus healed on the Sabbath and that really infuriated the Pharisees. He also called God his Father and that also put Him on their “bad” list.” (Shane)

    John actually is the only gospel that explicitly points to Jesus as God – depending on one’s interpretation of the majority of what is written – but it is there. It makes me wonder about the veracity of that book from a Jewish viewpoint – or if a Jewish writer actually wrote it.

    The term God is Father – actually had existed in rabbincal circles already and was basically a term about God and nation of Israel – God cared for them. Now when Jesus uses it – it’s actually not much different at all – but for some odd reason John 5:18 makes it seem like this is very problematic – and maybe it was – maybe the people did not see Jesus as a rabbi or anyone important (so his claims offended some).

    However, the fact Jesus calls God ‘Father’ is also clue to the idea Jesus is not claiming equality with God. When Jesus prays the ‘Our Father’ – he calls God Father there also – alongside everyone else (which was the way the term is used in John)…but he is praying to God (if he is God then no need to pray to God).

    “3. Jesus said He is the Son of Man.” (Shane)
    The son of man is also a created position by God – that does not appear until the prophet Daniel – some odd 1200 years after Moses’ writings (the Torah). It’s not an original idea from the Torah. Irregardless, this line seals the deal ‘He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power…” – Uhm, yeah – he is not the ‘Ancient of Days’ and is ‘given’ everything he becomes – so how is he God?

    Let me point out the absolute obvious fallacy going on here – Christians using Jewish texts (which they still study and live by) to proclaim Jesus is God – Tanakh passages are the proof (this includes the Isaiah idea from Steve also). It’s plain and simple wrong by inclusion of interpretation from a Jewish viewpoint (the rabbinical scholars). It is true, some of these passages are seen messianicly and have some importance on that level. Problem is, they are never seen as messianicly in the sense the ‘son of man’ would be equal to God – that is foreign to Jewish interpretation of the passages – so we obviously in Christian circles have ‘added it in’ – because it can not be found in Jewish circles at all.

    “This passage indicates that he isn’t human. He is given messianic dominion and authority. This person is worshiped. David speaks of this person is Psalm 110.” (Shane)

    Okay, another passage from the Tanakh (Psalm 110) – the question is beyond obvious – if Jewish people, who still study this and have in the past, do not ever arrive at this conclusion (Messiah is God) from a reading of the text (even when they see Messiah in it) – how is it we can even so much as use that as proof?

    But for those who will not listen to line 1 of my argument ‘hear this’: “The Lord says to my Lord” (vs.1) – That line in Hebrew actually can read ‘God/Adonai said to my master/lord’…and has always been viewed by Jewish rabbi’s to mean something in that vein of thinking – based solely on the Hebrew and context. David see’s someone as his master – that is below God on that scale of glory. Worshipped or not, he was ‘sent’ by the Lord/Adonai – ‘The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter’ – God still ordains the Messiah as ‘some authority’ which is the most common theme in all of the gospels and Tanakh passages on this idea of the ‘Messiah’ – that God sends him.

    “4. Jesus performed miracles” (Shane)

    If miracles were entrance into Godhood – then Elijah and Elisha have the market cornered first and foremost. However, neither Elijah not Elisha ever became gods or anything even remotely close – they were prophets of God – empowered by God. Even Elijah went up in a chariot of fire to God (like the ascension) and never was Elijah ever given god status. He was seen as a person blessed by God.
    Jesus actually is seen doing the same miracles of Elijah in many instances – even to the point where people are asking ‘is this Elijah’? Miracles or not proof of Godhood – they are just proof God is working with someone – anointed them even one could say.

    “5. Jesus said He is God” (Shane)

    In the Mark passage, and in all the other gospels concerning this same scene, Jesus claims to be the Messiah – that is the actual charge. However, there is a problem with seeing this scene as Jesus claiming to be God – cause then the High Priest would be accurate to call for blasphemy – cause Jesus would be breaking the great commandment. However, does not the passages about the Messiah point out ‘his innocence like that of a sheep’?

    Jesus had to have been innocent in that trial on all accounts he was blamed for – to be considered the Messiah…and the charge he was given was ‘blasphemy’. Is Jesus innocent of even this charge? I think so. Jesus does claim to be the Messiah – a piece he takes from Daniel in his answer – but I would contend he is innocent of the charge (since he had to be sinless) of blasphemy – and the court bonded the 2 in a rush to judgement.

    John 8 can be seen as a direct statement – that Jesus is God. I choose not to see John in that regards – but more word association in the use of the ‘I am’ statements. Jesus is stating he is clearly close to God – no doubt – however John either crosses the line and calls him God (only gospel to do so then) or is doing something unique with the wording.

    One has to remember Caesar was seen as the ‘son of God’ also and there is a unique comparison going on here from John’s book – about Jesus and Rome. I think John is making the point that Caesar is not the ‘son of God’ and Jesus is the ‘son of God’ – in that Jesus is the one to be followed and is close to God (actual representative). It was being written in the context of convincing Gentile believers (and anyone else) that Rome was not to be worshipped – and to make this stand would mean your life – but it was backed by good evidence – the life of Jesus.

    I personally do not know what to think of John to be honest – if you ask me it reads like a Gentile piece of work – using Jewish terminology – and at times – confusing the actual intents of the Jewish terms for more literal readings. If Jesus is God through and through as the Messiah – then why isn’t this idea backed from all over the place – and the only reference for Jesus being God comes from John’s gospel – and even within that gospel it gets contradictory on the same issue:

    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser” (John 15:1) – Jesus is the vine/plant and God is the vinedresser/gardener…yeah – totally different roles given by Jesus of himself and God. Almost as if, wait, yes – God is in charge of this whole thing.

    “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3) – Firstly, this is Jesus’ prayer to God. Jesus calls God ‘the Only true God’ – and that Jesus was ‘sent’ from Him. Jesus is not explaining how he and God are ‘One’ – no – he states clearly that God is the only God here – but also that all power and glory Jesus contains – comes directly from God’s anointing.

    Clear cut and obvious – I think not.

  3. I love it – I must respond – the gauntlet has been thrown down (lol). Beware – Trinity in full question.

    “1. Jesus said He came down from Heaven” (Shane)

    That’s not proof he is God – but is ‘from God’. I have stated it clearly that Jesus was created by God and was in the court of God all along – as the Messiah. Now He was ‘sent’ – sent people – sent! That speaks volumes.

    “2. Jesus said He was more than just a good man” (Shane)

    This one is actually kind of funny – because Jesus in that passage ‘why do you call me good’? Jesus is actually pointing out the very idea he is not God – or at the very least asking the question to point the honor to God for what ‘teaching’ he is doing and this is not of himself. Same thing we do with Jesus in most churches when asked ‘wow you are a good person’.

    “Jesus healed on the Sabbath and that really infuriated the Pharisees. He also called God his Father and that also put Him on their “bad” list.” (Shane)

    John actually is the only gospel that explicitly points to Jesus as God – depending on one’s interpretation of the majority of what is written – but it is there. It makes me wonder about the veracity of that book from a Jewish viewpoint – or if a Jewish writer actually wrote it.

    The term God is Father – actually had existed in rabbincal circles already and was basically a term about God and nation of Israel – God cared for them. Now when Jesus uses it – it’s actually not much different at all – but for some odd reason John 5:18 makes it seem like this is very problematic – and maybe it was – maybe the people did not see Jesus as a rabbi or anyone important (so his claims offended some).

    However, the fact Jesus calls God ‘Father’ is also clue to the idea Jesus is not claiming equality with God. When Jesus prays the ‘Our Father’ – he calls God Father there also – alongside everyone else (which was the way the term is used in John)…but he is praying to God (if he is God then no need to pray to God).

    “3. Jesus said He is the Son of Man.” (Shane)
    The son of man is also a created position by God – that does not appear until the prophet Daniel – some odd 1200 years after Moses’ writings (the Torah). It’s not an original idea from the Torah. Irregardless, this line seals the deal ‘He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power…” – Uhm, yeah – he is not the ‘Ancient of Days’ and is ‘given’ everything he becomes – so how is he God?

    Let me point out the absolute obvious fallacy going on here – Christians using Jewish texts (which they still study and live by) to proclaim Jesus is God – Tanakh passages are the proof (this includes the Isaiah idea from Steve also). It’s plain and simple wrong by inclusion of interpretation from a Jewish viewpoint (the rabbinical scholars). It is true, some of these passages are seen messianicly and have some importance on that level. Problem is, they are never seen as messianicly in the sense the ‘son of man’ would be equal to God – that is foreign to Jewish interpretation of the passages – so we obviously in Christian circles have ‘added it in’ – because it can not be found in Jewish circles at all.

    “This passage indicates that he isn’t human. He is given messianic dominion and authority. This person is worshiped. David speaks of this person is Psalm 110.” (Shane)

    Okay, another passage from the Tanakh (Psalm 110) – the question is beyond obvious – if Jewish people, who still study this and have in the past, do not ever arrive at this conclusion (Messiah is God) from a reading of the text (even when they see Messiah in it) – how is it we can even so much as use that as proof?

    But for those who will not listen to line 1 of my argument ‘hear this’: “The Lord says to my Lord” (vs.1) – That line in Hebrew actually can read ‘God/Adonai said to my master/lord’…and has always been viewed by Jewish rabbi’s to mean something in that vein of thinking – based solely on the Hebrew and context. David see’s someone as his master – that is below God on that scale of glory. Worshipped or not, he was ‘sent’ by the Lord/Adonai – ‘The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter’ – God still ordains the Messiah as ‘some authority’ which is the most common theme in all of the gospels and Tanakh passages on this idea of the ‘Messiah’ – that God sends him.

    “4. Jesus performed miracles” (Shane)

    If miracles were entrance into Godhood – then Elijah and Elisha have the market cornered first and foremost. However, neither Elijah not Elisha ever became gods or anything even remotely close – they were prophets of God – empowered by God. Even Elijah went up in a chariot of fire to God (like the ascension) and never was Elijah ever given god status. He was seen as a person blessed by God.
    Jesus actually is seen doing the same miracles of Elijah in many instances – even to the point where people are asking ‘is this Elijah’? Miracles or not proof of Godhood – they are just proof God is working with someone – anointed them even one could say.

    “5. Jesus said He is God” (Shane)

    In the Mark passage, and in all the other gospels concerning this same scene, Jesus claims to be the Messiah – that is the actual charge. However, there is a problem with seeing this scene as Jesus claiming to be God – cause then the High Priest would be accurate to call for blasphemy – cause Jesus would be breaking the great commandment. However, does not the passages about the Messiah point out ‘his innocence like that of a sheep’?

    Jesus had to have been innocent in that trial on all accounts he was blamed for – to be considered the Messiah…and the charge he was given was ‘blasphemy’. Is Jesus innocent of even this charge? I think so. Jesus does claim to be the Messiah – a piece he takes from Daniel in his answer – but I would contend he is innocent of the charge (since he had to be sinless) of blasphemy – and the court bonded the 2 in a rush to judgement.

    John 8 can be seen as a direct statement – that Jesus is God. I choose not to see John in that regards – but more word association in the use of the ‘I am’ statements. Jesus is stating he is clearly close to God – no doubt – however John either crosses the line and calls him God (only gospel to do so then) or is doing something unique with the wording.

    One has to remember Caesar was seen as the ‘son of God’ also and there is a unique comparison going on here from John’s book – about Jesus and Rome. I think John is making the point that Caesar is not the ‘son of God’ and Jesus is the ‘son of God’ – in that Jesus is the one to be followed and is close to God (actual representative). It was being written in the context of convincing Gentile believers (and anyone else) that Rome was not to be worshipped – and to make this stand would mean your life – but it was backed by good evidence – the life of Jesus.

    I personally do not know what to think of John to be honest – if you ask me it reads like a Gentile piece of work – using Jewish terminology – and at times – confusing the actual intents of the Jewish terms for more literal readings. If Jesus is God through and through as the Messiah – then why isn’t this idea backed from all over the place – and the only reference for Jesus being God comes from John’s gospel – and even within that gospel it gets contradictory on the same issue:

    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser” (John 15:1) – Jesus is the vine/plant and God is the vinedresser/gardener…yeah – totally different roles given by Jesus of himself and God. Almost as if, wait, yes – God is in charge of this whole thing.

    “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3) – Firstly, this is Jesus’ prayer to God. Jesus calls God ‘the Only true God’ – and that Jesus was ‘sent’ from Him. Jesus is not explaining how he and God are ‘One’ – no – he states clearly that God is the only God here – but also that all power and glory Jesus contains – comes directly from God’s anointing.

    Clear cut and obvious – I think not.

  4. Society – John 1 & Colossians 1:15ff state that Jesus is God, and was with God in the beginning.

    The “sent” is dealing with the triune nature of God – the roles of Son and Father. It doesn’t make Him any less God.

    Regarding the Gospel of John – written by the Apostle John – most Biblical scholars would give credit of authorship to him. It’s audience is likely Hellinistic Jews. John 1 is evidence of that referring to Logos (the Word) definitely a Greek philosophical influence, but communicating in a way they would understand.

    Jesus was called rabbi severals times in the Gospels and had multitudes following him. The people were amazed by how He taught with authority.

    With your reference to Jesus calling God the Father – again – the concept of the Trinity.

    Most Jews in Jesus days (with the exception of the Sadducees (sp?)) saw the Law and the Prophets as scripture. So whether it is included in the Law is really irrelevant.

    Well, you have a lot here. Your comment is actually longer than my original post.

    Regarding miracles – yes Elijah and Elisha performed miracles. But that can’t lay claim to the other stuff though.

    Regarding the Jewish people who studied Psalm 110. I’d say because they don’t want to see. Because those who studied it before Jesus didn’t know what they were looking for. Also many of the Jews in Jesus time were looking for the Messiah to overthrow the Romans, but missed the passages in Isaiah that refer to His suffering and death. Hard hearts… I don’t know. The fact that they don’t see it that way doesn’t mean that they are right though.

    You mention Jesus in sinless. How could that be so if He were not God?

  5. Society – John 1 & Colossians 1:15ff state that Jesus is God, and was with God in the beginning.

    The “sent” is dealing with the triune nature of God – the roles of Son and Father. It doesn’t make Him any less God.

    Regarding the Gospel of John – written by the Apostle John – most Biblical scholars would give credit of authorship to him. It’s audience is likely Hellinistic Jews. John 1 is evidence of that referring to Logos (the Word) definitely a Greek philosophical influence, but communicating in a way they would understand.

    Jesus was called rabbi severals times in the Gospels and had multitudes following him. The people were amazed by how He taught with authority.

    With your reference to Jesus calling God the Father – again – the concept of the Trinity.

    Most Jews in Jesus days (with the exception of the Sadducees (sp?)) saw the Law and the Prophets as scripture. So whether it is included in the Law is really irrelevant.

    Well, you have a lot here. Your comment is actually longer than my original post.

    Regarding miracles – yes Elijah and Elisha performed miracles. But that can’t lay claim to the other stuff though.

    Regarding the Jewish people who studied Psalm 110. I’d say because they don’t want to see. Because those who studied it before Jesus didn’t know what they were looking for. Also many of the Jews in Jesus time were looking for the Messiah to overthrow the Romans, but missed the passages in Isaiah that refer to His suffering and death. Hard hearts… I don’t know. The fact that they don’t see it that way doesn’t mean that they are right though.

    You mention Jesus in sinless. How could that be so if He were not God?

  6. Society – John 1 & Colossians 1:15ff state that Jesus is God, and was with God in the beginning.

    The “sent” is dealing with the triune nature of God – the roles of Son and Father. It doesn’t make Him any less God.

    Regarding the Gospel of John – written by the Apostle John – most Biblical scholars would give credit of authorship to him. It’s audience is likely Hellinistic Jews. John 1 is evidence of that referring to Logos (the Word) definitely a Greek philosophical influence, but communicating in a way they would understand.

    Jesus was called rabbi severals times in the Gospels and had multitudes following him. The people were amazed by how He taught with authority.

    With your reference to Jesus calling God the Father – again – the concept of the Trinity.

    Most Jews in Jesus days (with the exception of the Sadducees (sp?)) saw the Law and the Prophets as scripture. So whether it is included in the Law is really irrelevant.

    Well, you have a lot here. Your comment is actually longer than my original post.

    Regarding miracles – yes Elijah and Elisha performed miracles. But that can’t lay claim to the other stuff though.

    Regarding the Jewish people who studied Psalm 110. I’d say because they don’t want to see. Because those who studied it before Jesus didn’t know what they were looking for. Also many of the Jews in Jesus time were looking for the Messiah to overthrow the Romans, but missed the passages in Isaiah that refer to His suffering and death. Hard hearts… I don’t know. The fact that they don’t see it that way doesn’t mean that they are right though.

    You mention Jesus in sinless. How could that be so if He were not God?

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