Picking up from part 1.  Mark Driscoll in addressing the question of who Jesus is, looked at what Jesus said about Himself.  I listed the first five ways in which Jesus claimed He is God in the previous post.

Here are the last five:

6.  Jesus confirmed to others He is God.

But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”  Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy, (Matthew 26:63-65, ESV).

Jesus was accused of blasphemy!  The penalty for that was death.  Why would He say that if it were not so?  Jesus declared He was God and didn’t recant when accused of blasphemy.

7.  Jesus said He was sinless.

Sin is both doing what is wrong, and not doing what is right.  The Bible also states that sin not just includes our actions (or non-actions), but also our thoughts, motives and words.

Nobody can claim to be without sin.  No one credible has done so.  Jesus is the only Person in history who can make that claim.

Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me, (John 8:46, ESV).

  • Peter calls him the Holy and Righteous One, (Acts 3:14).
  • He is referred to as a lamb without blemish or spot, (1 Peter 1:19)
  • " He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth," (1 Peter 2:22, ESV).
  • The Apostle John said that those who claim to be without sin are liars, (1 John 1:8).  He also said that Jesus was without sin, (1 John 3:5).
  • "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God, (2 Corinthians 5:21, ESV).

8.  Jesus forgave sin.

We can forgive those who sinned against us, but what about those who sin against God?  We can’t.  Only God can forgive those who have sinned against Him.  But yet, Jesus did just that.

  • Speaking woman who was repentant saying, "your sins are forgiven," (Luke 7:48).
  • When He saw the faith of the paralytic and the men who lowered him through the roof of the house he was teaching in, he said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you," (Luke 5:20).  At that point he is accused of blasphemy by the Pharisees and scribes because, "who can forgive sins but God alone?"

9.  Jesus taught people to pray to Him as God.

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it, (John 14:13-14, ESV).

He did this numerous times.  He said:

  • Whatever we ask the Father in His name will be given to us, (John 15:16).
  • If we ask in His name we’ll receive that our joy would be made full, (John 16:24).

Also Stephen cried out to Jesus as he was being stoned to death for Jesus to receive his spirit, (Acts 7:59).  Many people cry out to Jesus in times of desperate need.  If Jesus is not God those prayers are made in vain.

10.  Jesus said He is the only way to heaven.

Responding to Philip who told Jesus to show them the Father and that would be enough for them.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me.  If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.  From now on you do know him and have seen him," (John 14:6-7, ESV).

Jesus even said that narrow is the gate that leads to salvation, (Matthew 7:13-14), but so many want to broaden it.  Jesus said it was through Him and Him alone.

The question remains to be answered, how should we respond to the incredible person, work and claims of Jesus?

43 comments
  1. Jesus makes no reference to having to believe in him or even having to call his name. For all intensive purposes he just cleared the way for all to be saved. It may be only through him that we get there, but thats because of what he did not what we do.

  2. Jesus makes no reference to having to believe in him or even having to call his name. For all intensive purposes he just cleared the way for all to be saved. It may be only through him that we get there, but thats because of what he did not what we do.

  3. Jesus makes no reference to having to believe in him or even having to call his name. For all intensive purposes he just cleared the way for all to be saved. It may be only through him that we get there, but thats because of what he did not what we do.

  4. Let’s see – Jesus’ own words.

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God,” (John 3:16-21, NASB).

    Those are red letter (meaning Jesus’ words). Even if He didn’t say it, Scripture does say it elsewhere.

    By the way, I agree with you that it is through what Jesus did on the cross, not our works. I’m talking about our response to His work on the cross.

    Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved.”

  5. Let’s see – Jesus’ own words.

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God,” (John 3:16-21, NASB).

    Those are red letter (meaning Jesus’ words). Even if He didn’t say it, Scripture does say it elsewhere.

    By the way, I agree with you that it is through what Jesus did on the cross, not our works. I’m talking about our response to His work on the cross.

    Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved.”

  6. Let’s see – Jesus’ own words.

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God,” (John 3:16-21, NASB).

    Those are red letter (meaning Jesus’ words). Even if He didn’t say it, Scripture does say it elsewhere.

    By the way, I agree with you that it is through what Jesus did on the cross, not our works. I’m talking about our response to His work on the cross.

    Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved.”

  7. Let’s see – Jesus’ own words.

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God,” (John 3:16-21, NASB).

    Those are red letter (meaning Jesus’ words). Even if He didn’t say it, Scripture does say it elsewhere.

    By the way, I agree with you that it is through what Jesus did on the cross, not our works. I’m talking about our response to His work on the cross.

    Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved.”

  8. ok this is where we will differ. A works to me is something that I have to do. It is a requirement either physical or mental, because afterall both physical and mental require energy from me. So with that said.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

    Also

    “Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second.
    10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

    Now those last 3 words are very interesting……….”Once for ALL.”

  9. ok this is where we will differ. A works to me is something that I have to do. It is a requirement either physical or mental, because afterall both physical and mental require energy from me. So with that said.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

    Also

    “Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second.
    10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

    Now those last 3 words are very interesting……….”Once for ALL.”

  10. ok this is where we will differ. A works to me is something that I have to do. It is a requirement either physical or mental, because afterall both physical and mental require energy from me. So with that said.

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

    Also

    “Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second.
    10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

    Now those last 3 words are very interesting……….”Once for ALL.”

  11. By the way, explain this one to me. What did Jesus say to the people who were trash talking him when he was on the cross? He said, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.”

    So if they are forgiven without having to do anything(ie believe), wouldnt it be a double standard if we have to believe to be saved?

  12. By the way, explain this one to me. What did Jesus say to the people who were trash talking him when he was on the cross? He said, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.”

    So if they are forgiven without having to do anything(ie believe), wouldnt it be a double standard if we have to believe to be saved?

  13. By the way, explain this one to me. What did Jesus say to the people who were trash talking him when he was on the cross? He said, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.”

    So if they are forgiven without having to do anything(ie believe), wouldnt it be a double standard if we have to believe to be saved?

  14. By the way, explain this one to me. What did Jesus say to the people who were trash talking him when he was on the cross? He said, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.”

    So if they are forgiven without having to do anything(ie believe), wouldnt it be a double standard if we have to believe to be saved?

  15. Jesus was not Sinless….

    Jesus violated at least two of the Ten Commandments as well as several other requirements of the Old Testament Law. This means that he was a sinner, and could not possibly have fulfilled the requirement of being the perfectly innocent sacrificial lamb required by Paul’s theology. Here are some examples of the sins of Jesus:

    “Honor your father and your mother.” (Exodus 20:12)
    BUT: Jesus spoke very harshly to his mother in John 2:4 (“Woman, what do I have to do with you?”) He effectively disowned her in public in Matthew 12:46-50, preferring his followers over her. And when the woman in Luke proclaims Mary’s womb as “blessed” for having given birth to Jesus, he objects and responds, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” (Luke 11:28) On all these counts, Jesus dishonored his mother, in violation of the fifth commandment, and thus committed a sin.

    “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house . . . or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” (Exodus 20:17)
    BUT: Jesus commanded his disciples, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.” (Matthew 21:2) Matthew’s account does not tell us that they asked anyone for permission to take the donkey and the colt, or if they did ask, what the response was. In any case, at least the tenth commandment was violated, because Jesus coveted another person’s donkey. If he had them taken without permission, then he also violated the eighth commandment against stealing. Jesus’s behavior in Luke’s version is no better. In that gospel the animal is a colt, but the owner confronts the disciples, asking “Why are you untying the colt?” And the disciples respond, “The Lord has need of it.” (Luke 19:33-34) And they take it anyway. No permission is given by the colt’s owner.

    “If anyone sins in that he hears a public adjuration to testify and though he is a witness, whether he has seen or come to know the matter, yet does not speak, he shall bear his iniquity.” (Leviticus 5:1)
    In other words, anyone summoned to testify in a public proceeding is obligated to tell what he knows.
    BUT: Jesus, before the Sanhedrin and before Pilate, refused to testify: “Then Pilate said to him, ‘Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?’ And he did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so that the governor was quite amazed.” (Matthew 27:13-14) Thus, Jesus committed another sin by refusing to testify.

    “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” (Deuteronomy 6:5)
    BUT: On the cross, Jesus cried out, “My God, my God, why have you deserted me?” (Mark 15:34) At that moment, Jesus was definitely not expressing love for God, but frustration and despair. Certainly his whole heart, and soul, and might were not devoted to the love of God at that moment. Thus Jesus violated the commandment expressed in Deuteronomy 6:5, showing again that he was a sinner.

    And if Jesus was not a sinner, why did he get baptized by John the Baptist? (Mark 1:9) John was preaching a “baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Mark 1:4) The only reason to be baptized is to wash away sinfulness

  16. Jesus was not Sinless….

    Jesus violated at least two of the Ten Commandments as well as several other requirements of the Old Testament Law. This means that he was a sinner, and could not possibly have fulfilled the requirement of being the perfectly innocent sacrificial lamb required by Paul’s theology. Here are some examples of the sins of Jesus:

    “Honor your father and your mother.” (Exodus 20:12)
    BUT: Jesus spoke very harshly to his mother in John 2:4 (“Woman, what do I have to do with you?”) He effectively disowned her in public in Matthew 12:46-50, preferring his followers over her. And when the woman in Luke proclaims Mary’s womb as “blessed” for having given birth to Jesus, he objects and responds, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” (Luke 11:28) On all these counts, Jesus dishonored his mother, in violation of the fifth commandment, and thus committed a sin.

    “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house . . . or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” (Exodus 20:17)
    BUT: Jesus commanded his disciples, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.” (Matthew 21:2) Matthew’s account does not tell us that they asked anyone for permission to take the donkey and the colt, or if they did ask, what the response was. In any case, at least the tenth commandment was violated, because Jesus coveted another person’s donkey. If he had them taken without permission, then he also violated the eighth commandment against stealing. Jesus’s behavior in Luke’s version is no better. In that gospel the animal is a colt, but the owner confronts the disciples, asking “Why are you untying the colt?” And the disciples respond, “The Lord has need of it.” (Luke 19:33-34) And they take it anyway. No permission is given by the colt’s owner.

    “If anyone sins in that he hears a public adjuration to testify and though he is a witness, whether he has seen or come to know the matter, yet does not speak, he shall bear his iniquity.” (Leviticus 5:1)
    In other words, anyone summoned to testify in a public proceeding is obligated to tell what he knows.
    BUT: Jesus, before the Sanhedrin and before Pilate, refused to testify: “Then Pilate said to him, ‘Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?’ And he did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so that the governor was quite amazed.” (Matthew 27:13-14) Thus, Jesus committed another sin by refusing to testify.

    “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” (Deuteronomy 6:5)
    BUT: On the cross, Jesus cried out, “My God, my God, why have you deserted me?” (Mark 15:34) At that moment, Jesus was definitely not expressing love for God, but frustration and despair. Certainly his whole heart, and soul, and might were not devoted to the love of God at that moment. Thus Jesus violated the commandment expressed in Deuteronomy 6:5, showing again that he was a sinner.

    And if Jesus was not a sinner, why did he get baptized by John the Baptist? (Mark 1:9) John was preaching a “baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Mark 1:4) The only reason to be baptized is to wash away sinfulness

  17. Jesus was not Sinless….

    Jesus violated at least two of the Ten Commandments as well as several other requirements of the Old Testament Law. This means that he was a sinner, and could not possibly have fulfilled the requirement of being the perfectly innocent sacrificial lamb required by Paul’s theology. Here are some examples of the sins of Jesus:

    “Honor your father and your mother.” (Exodus 20:12)
    BUT: Jesus spoke very harshly to his mother in John 2:4 (“Woman, what do I have to do with you?”) He effectively disowned her in public in Matthew 12:46-50, preferring his followers over her. And when the woman in Luke proclaims Mary’s womb as “blessed” for having given birth to Jesus, he objects and responds, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” (Luke 11:28) On all these counts, Jesus dishonored his mother, in violation of the fifth commandment, and thus committed a sin.

    “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house . . . or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” (Exodus 20:17)
    BUT: Jesus commanded his disciples, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.” (Matthew 21:2) Matthew’s account does not tell us that they asked anyone for permission to take the donkey and the colt, or if they did ask, what the response was. In any case, at least the tenth commandment was violated, because Jesus coveted another person’s donkey. If he had them taken without permission, then he also violated the eighth commandment against stealing. Jesus’s behavior in Luke’s version is no better. In that gospel the animal is a colt, but the owner confronts the disciples, asking “Why are you untying the colt?” And the disciples respond, “The Lord has need of it.” (Luke 19:33-34) And they take it anyway. No permission is given by the colt’s owner.

    “If anyone sins in that he hears a public adjuration to testify and though he is a witness, whether he has seen or come to know the matter, yet does not speak, he shall bear his iniquity.” (Leviticus 5:1)
    In other words, anyone summoned to testify in a public proceeding is obligated to tell what he knows.
    BUT: Jesus, before the Sanhedrin and before Pilate, refused to testify: “Then Pilate said to him, ‘Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?’ And he did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so that the governor was quite amazed.” (Matthew 27:13-14) Thus, Jesus committed another sin by refusing to testify.

    “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” (Deuteronomy 6:5)
    BUT: On the cross, Jesus cried out, “My God, my God, why have you deserted me?” (Mark 15:34) At that moment, Jesus was definitely not expressing love for God, but frustration and despair. Certainly his whole heart, and soul, and might were not devoted to the love of God at that moment. Thus Jesus violated the commandment expressed in Deuteronomy 6:5, showing again that he was a sinner.

    And if Jesus was not a sinner, why did he get baptized by John the Baptist? (Mark 1:9) John was preaching a “baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Mark 1:4) The only reason to be baptized is to wash away sinfulness

  18. John,

    I do not believe in works-based salvation. I agree that it is by faith through grace. I also believe that God is sovereign and that “no one can come to (Jesus) unless the Father who sent me draws him,” (John 6:44, ESV).

    In that same passage in John it talks about man’s responsibility, but he can’t come on his own because, well Ephesians 2:1 says that we are dead in our sins and trespasses.

    So I don’t boast in my response – I praise God that He drew by His Holy Spirit to respond. So by responding to God’s grace is being saved by works – it is simply receiving the gift that has been given.

    I am not saying, “I am saved because I go to church, or I am saved because I gave to charity, or I am basically a nice person” – when in reality I am truly, utterly spiritually dead until Christ makes me alive in Him.

    In comment three you mention… once and for all. Yes Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient to atone for our sin. He doesn’t need to die again. His work is complete. Hebrews says that He sat down at the right hand of the Father. That doesn’t say all are saved.

    Regarding your last comment that Jesus wasn’t sinless – he violated the Pharisee’s interpretation of the Law, not the law itself. He was often criticizing the mess the Pharisees and scribes made with their false teaching.

    Regarding your other examples. You seem to be lacking the proper context or just missing some of the facts. If I have time I’ll address those, but right now I have to run to get to a meeting.

  19. John,

    I do not believe in works-based salvation. I agree that it is by faith through grace. I also believe that God is sovereign and that “no one can come to (Jesus) unless the Father who sent me draws him,” (John 6:44, ESV).

    In that same passage in John it talks about man’s responsibility, but he can’t come on his own because, well Ephesians 2:1 says that we are dead in our sins and trespasses.

    So I don’t boast in my response – I praise God that He drew by His Holy Spirit to respond. So by responding to God’s grace is being saved by works – it is simply receiving the gift that has been given.

    I am not saying, “I am saved because I go to church, or I am saved because I gave to charity, or I am basically a nice person” – when in reality I am truly, utterly spiritually dead until Christ makes me alive in Him.

    In comment three you mention… once and for all. Yes Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient to atone for our sin. He doesn’t need to die again. His work is complete. Hebrews says that He sat down at the right hand of the Father. That doesn’t say all are saved.

    Regarding your last comment that Jesus wasn’t sinless – he violated the Pharisee’s interpretation of the Law, not the law itself. He was often criticizing the mess the Pharisees and scribes made with their false teaching.

    Regarding your other examples. You seem to be lacking the proper context or just missing some of the facts. If I have time I’ll address those, but right now I have to run to get to a meeting.

  20. John,

    I do not believe in works-based salvation. I agree that it is by faith through grace. I also believe that God is sovereign and that “no one can come to (Jesus) unless the Father who sent me draws him,” (John 6:44, ESV).

    In that same passage in John it talks about man’s responsibility, but he can’t come on his own because, well Ephesians 2:1 says that we are dead in our sins and trespasses.

    So I don’t boast in my response – I praise God that He drew by His Holy Spirit to respond. So by responding to God’s grace is being saved by works – it is simply receiving the gift that has been given.

    I am not saying, “I am saved because I go to church, or I am saved because I gave to charity, or I am basically a nice person” – when in reality I am truly, utterly spiritually dead until Christ makes me alive in Him.

    In comment three you mention… once and for all. Yes Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient to atone for our sin. He doesn’t need to die again. His work is complete. Hebrews says that He sat down at the right hand of the Father. That doesn’t say all are saved.

    Regarding your last comment that Jesus wasn’t sinless – he violated the Pharisee’s interpretation of the Law, not the law itself. He was often criticizing the mess the Pharisees and scribes made with their false teaching.

    Regarding your other examples. You seem to be lacking the proper context or just missing some of the facts. If I have time I’ll address those, but right now I have to run to get to a meeting.

  21. Hey Shane

    Heres another one for you when you get back from your meeting 😉

    John 12:32

    “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself”

    Dont you just love the ALL part 🙂

  22. Hey Shane

    Heres another one for you when you get back from your meeting 😉

    John 12:32

    “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself”

    Dont you just love the ALL part 🙂

  23. Hey Shane

    Heres another one for you when you get back from your meeting 😉

    John 12:32

    “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself”

    Dont you just love the ALL part 🙂

  24. Hi again John.

    Looking at your comment about Jesus not being sinless.

    Before I look at each point you bring up I do want to bring up one major rebuttal point. Jesus’ death on the cross provides for forgiveness of sin. I think you and I agree on that. But, in order to do that it requires a perfect sacrifice… otherwise sacrifices would have to continue to be offered for the forgiveness of sin. Jesus’ death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection put fulfilled OT ceremonial law.

    Hebrews 4:14-5:10 refer to Jesus being without sin and because of that wasn’t obligated to perform a sacrifice on His own behalf, unlike the High Priests.

    Hebrews 7:26-28 refers to that, as well as, Hebrews 10:11-18.

    Regarding John 2:4 – actually in Jewish culture, “woman” was a polite form of address, similar to us saying “Ma’am”. It isn’t a customary greeting of one’s mother, but He seemed to be putting some polite distance between them.

    Context of the passage was that Mary wanted her son to do something, to perform a miracle. He said, “my hour has not yet come.” Meaning that his road to the cross begins as this is the very first recorded miracle. Actually I think it is respectful that he honored his mother’s wishes and turned the water into wine.

    Regarding Matthew 12:46-50 and a similar passage in Mark 3 – Jesus commonly employes hyperbole – he wanted to use a rhetorical exaggeration to make a point of his priorities. You can see by one of His last acts on the cross was to make sure his mother was taken care of that He didn’t disown her.

    Regarding the colt…

    Matthew 21:6 – “The disciples went and did as Jesus directed them.” – going back to verse 3 – “If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” – that implies that they will be sent with the owner’s blessing.

    Also you are missing the point in that this fulfills prophecy – Zechariah 9:9 – and that He knew exactly where it would be – demonstrating His omniscience.

    Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.

    Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded.

    Actually with Matthew 27 – Jesus did testify – he answered Pilate. He did not the chief priests. Why? They didn’t have legal authority, whereas Pilate did.

    Also it isn’t like he was called to testify for or against somebody. He was being accused. Leviticus 5:1 doesn’t apply. Leviticus 5:1 is similar to being subpoenaed.

    His cry on the cross – Eloi, eloi lama sacbathani – that was a cry from the heart – on the cross God the Father turned His back on His son. Because – “he who knew no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God,” (2 Cor. 5:21). God being holy could not look upon His Son. Now since when does feeling forsaken and expressing that, not loving God? That doesn’t equate. Also this statement on the cross fulfills scripture – Psalm 22:1.

    Regarding the baptism – Jesus said, “Let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness,” (Matthew 3:15). John was amazed because he said “you come to me, when I need to be baptized by you?” Why – because Jesus was without sin, John was not.

    Also this act of Jesus seems to stress His identification with Israel in obedience to God’s law.

    Basically when it came time to accuse – the Pharisees had nothing. They had people lie. They charged him with blasphemy which if He were not God He would have committed, but He was and He didn’t.

    John 12:32 – see the next verse – “He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die,” (John 12:33). It refers to Isaiah 52:13.

    Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.

    Likely this utterance was prompted by the presence of Greeks in the crowd (John 12:20) and this statement, “all men” should be looked at in that context.

    In the Gospel of John there is clear difference between believers and unbelievers – John 1:11; 3:18, 36; 5:29. Also in 1 John 3:10, 15; 5:12.

    John – context is king. You have to interpret scripture with scripture. You have to have a grasp of historical context. You can’t just cherry pick scripture.

  25. Hi again John.

    Looking at your comment about Jesus not being sinless.

    Before I look at each point you bring up I do want to bring up one major rebuttal point. Jesus’ death on the cross provides for forgiveness of sin. I think you and I agree on that. But, in order to do that it requires a perfect sacrifice… otherwise sacrifices would have to continue to be offered for the forgiveness of sin. Jesus’ death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection put fulfilled OT ceremonial law.

    Hebrews 4:14-5:10 refer to Jesus being without sin and because of that wasn’t obligated to perform a sacrifice on His own behalf, unlike the High Priests.

    Hebrews 7:26-28 refers to that, as well as, Hebrews 10:11-18.

    Regarding John 2:4 – actually in Jewish culture, “woman” was a polite form of address, similar to us saying “Ma’am”. It isn’t a customary greeting of one’s mother, but He seemed to be putting some polite distance between them.

    Context of the passage was that Mary wanted her son to do something, to perform a miracle. He said, “my hour has not yet come.” Meaning that his road to the cross begins as this is the very first recorded miracle. Actually I think it is respectful that he honored his mother’s wishes and turned the water into wine.

    Regarding Matthew 12:46-50 and a similar passage in Mark 3 – Jesus commonly employes hyperbole – he wanted to use a rhetorical exaggeration to make a point of his priorities. You can see by one of His last acts on the cross was to make sure his mother was taken care of that He didn’t disown her.

    Regarding the colt…

    Matthew 21:6 – “The disciples went and did as Jesus directed them.” – going back to verse 3 – “If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” – that implies that they will be sent with the owner’s blessing.

    Also you are missing the point in that this fulfills prophecy – Zechariah 9:9 – and that He knew exactly where it would be – demonstrating His omniscience.

    Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.

    Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded.

    Actually with Matthew 27 – Jesus did testify – he answered Pilate. He did not the chief priests. Why? They didn’t have legal authority, whereas Pilate did.

    Also it isn’t like he was called to testify for or against somebody. He was being accused. Leviticus 5:1 doesn’t apply. Leviticus 5:1 is similar to being subpoenaed.

    His cry on the cross – Eloi, eloi lama sacbathani – that was a cry from the heart – on the cross God the Father turned His back on His son. Because – “he who knew no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God,” (2 Cor. 5:21). God being holy could not look upon His Son. Now since when does feeling forsaken and expressing that, not loving God? That doesn’t equate. Also this statement on the cross fulfills scripture – Psalm 22:1.

    Regarding the baptism – Jesus said, “Let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness,” (Matthew 3:15). John was amazed because he said “you come to me, when I need to be baptized by you?” Why – because Jesus was without sin, John was not.

    Also this act of Jesus seems to stress His identification with Israel in obedience to God’s law.

    Basically when it came time to accuse – the Pharisees had nothing. They had people lie. They charged him with blasphemy which if He were not God He would have committed, but He was and He didn’t.

    John 12:32 – see the next verse – “He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die,” (John 12:33). It refers to Isaiah 52:13.

    Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.

    Likely this utterance was prompted by the presence of Greeks in the crowd (John 12:20) and this statement, “all men” should be looked at in that context.

    In the Gospel of John there is clear difference between believers and unbelievers – John 1:11; 3:18, 36; 5:29. Also in 1 John 3:10, 15; 5:12.

    John – context is king. You have to interpret scripture with scripture. You have to have a grasp of historical context. You can’t just cherry pick scripture.

  26. Hi again John.

    Looking at your comment about Jesus not being sinless.

    Before I look at each point you bring up I do want to bring up one major rebuttal point. Jesus’ death on the cross provides for forgiveness of sin. I think you and I agree on that. But, in order to do that it requires a perfect sacrifice… otherwise sacrifices would have to continue to be offered for the forgiveness of sin. Jesus’ death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection put fulfilled OT ceremonial law.

    Hebrews 4:14-5:10 refer to Jesus being without sin and because of that wasn’t obligated to perform a sacrifice on His own behalf, unlike the High Priests.

    Hebrews 7:26-28 refers to that, as well as, Hebrews 10:11-18.

    Regarding John 2:4 – actually in Jewish culture, “woman” was a polite form of address, similar to us saying “Ma’am”. It isn’t a customary greeting of one’s mother, but He seemed to be putting some polite distance between them.

    Context of the passage was that Mary wanted her son to do something, to perform a miracle. He said, “my hour has not yet come.” Meaning that his road to the cross begins as this is the very first recorded miracle. Actually I think it is respectful that he honored his mother’s wishes and turned the water into wine.

    Regarding Matthew 12:46-50 and a similar passage in Mark 3 – Jesus commonly employes hyperbole – he wanted to use a rhetorical exaggeration to make a point of his priorities. You can see by one of His last acts on the cross was to make sure his mother was taken care of that He didn’t disown her.

    Regarding the colt…

    Matthew 21:6 – “The disciples went and did as Jesus directed them.” – going back to verse 3 – “If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” – that implies that they will be sent with the owner’s blessing.

    Also you are missing the point in that this fulfills prophecy – Zechariah 9:9 – and that He knew exactly where it would be – demonstrating His omniscience.

    Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.

    Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded.

    Actually with Matthew 27 – Jesus did testify – he answered Pilate. He did not the chief priests. Why? They didn’t have legal authority, whereas Pilate did.

    Also it isn’t like he was called to testify for or against somebody. He was being accused. Leviticus 5:1 doesn’t apply. Leviticus 5:1 is similar to being subpoenaed.

    His cry on the cross – Eloi, eloi lama sacbathani – that was a cry from the heart – on the cross God the Father turned His back on His son. Because – “he who knew no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God,” (2 Cor. 5:21). God being holy could not look upon His Son. Now since when does feeling forsaken and expressing that, not loving God? That doesn’t equate. Also this statement on the cross fulfills scripture – Psalm 22:1.

    Regarding the baptism – Jesus said, “Let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness,” (Matthew 3:15). John was amazed because he said “you come to me, when I need to be baptized by you?” Why – because Jesus was without sin, John was not.

    Also this act of Jesus seems to stress His identification with Israel in obedience to God’s law.

    Basically when it came time to accuse – the Pharisees had nothing. They had people lie. They charged him with blasphemy which if He were not God He would have committed, but He was and He didn’t.

    John 12:32 – see the next verse – “He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die,” (John 12:33). It refers to Isaiah 52:13.

    Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.

    Likely this utterance was prompted by the presence of Greeks in the crowd (John 12:20) and this statement, “all men” should be looked at in that context.

    In the Gospel of John there is clear difference between believers and unbelievers – John 1:11; 3:18, 36; 5:29. Also in 1 John 3:10, 15; 5:12.

    John – context is king. You have to interpret scripture with scripture. You have to have a grasp of historical context. You can’t just cherry pick scripture.

  27. Hi again John.

    Looking at your comment about Jesus not being sinless.

    Before I look at each point you bring up I do want to bring up one major rebuttal point. Jesus’ death on the cross provides for forgiveness of sin. I think you and I agree on that. But, in order to do that it requires a perfect sacrifice… otherwise sacrifices would have to continue to be offered for the forgiveness of sin. Jesus’ death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection put fulfilled OT ceremonial law.

    Hebrews 4:14-5:10 refer to Jesus being without sin and because of that wasn’t obligated to perform a sacrifice on His own behalf, unlike the High Priests.

    Hebrews 7:26-28 refers to that, as well as, Hebrews 10:11-18.

    Regarding John 2:4 – actually in Jewish culture, “woman” was a polite form of address, similar to us saying “Ma’am”. It isn’t a customary greeting of one’s mother, but He seemed to be putting some polite distance between them.

    Context of the passage was that Mary wanted her son to do something, to perform a miracle. He said, “my hour has not yet come.” Meaning that his road to the cross begins as this is the very first recorded miracle. Actually I think it is respectful that he honored his mother’s wishes and turned the water into wine.

    Regarding Matthew 12:46-50 and a similar passage in Mark 3 – Jesus commonly employes hyperbole – he wanted to use a rhetorical exaggeration to make a point of his priorities. You can see by one of His last acts on the cross was to make sure his mother was taken care of that He didn’t disown her.

    Regarding the colt…

    Matthew 21:6 – “The disciples went and did as Jesus directed them.” – going back to verse 3 – “If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” – that implies that they will be sent with the owner’s blessing.

    Also you are missing the point in that this fulfills prophecy – Zechariah 9:9 – and that He knew exactly where it would be – demonstrating His omniscience.

    Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.

    Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded.

    Actually with Matthew 27 – Jesus did testify – he answered Pilate. He did not the chief priests. Why? They didn’t have legal authority, whereas Pilate did.

    Also it isn’t like he was called to testify for or against somebody. He was being accused. Leviticus 5:1 doesn’t apply. Leviticus 5:1 is similar to being subpoenaed.

    His cry on the cross – Eloi, eloi lama sacbathani – that was a cry from the heart – on the cross God the Father turned His back on His son. Because – “he who knew no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God,” (2 Cor. 5:21). God being holy could not look upon His Son. Now since when does feeling forsaken and expressing that, not loving God? That doesn’t equate. Also this statement on the cross fulfills scripture – Psalm 22:1.

    Regarding the baptism – Jesus said, “Let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness,” (Matthew 3:15). John was amazed because he said “you come to me, when I need to be baptized by you?” Why – because Jesus was without sin, John was not.

    Also this act of Jesus seems to stress His identification with Israel in obedience to God’s law.

    Basically when it came time to accuse – the Pharisees had nothing. They had people lie. They charged him with blasphemy which if He were not God He would have committed, but He was and He didn’t.

    John 12:32 – see the next verse – “He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die,” (John 12:33). It refers to Isaiah 52:13.

    Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.

    Likely this utterance was prompted by the presence of Greeks in the crowd (John 12:20) and this statement, “all men” should be looked at in that context.

    In the Gospel of John there is clear difference between believers and unbelievers – John 1:11; 3:18, 36; 5:29. Also in 1 John 3:10, 15; 5:12.

    John – context is king. You have to interpret scripture with scripture. You have to have a grasp of historical context. You can’t just cherry pick scripture.

  28. Good morning Shane

    Maybe I Cherry pick but you it seems, assumes and Im not sure which one is worse.

    “Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.”

    Here you are assuming permission was given, I choose to take it at face value, and it wasnt given in this instance. Also whos to say the guy would have believed Jesus to be Lord.

    “Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded”

    Now here you go assuming again. In my experience most people who take something that isnt theirs rarely give it back. But have its your choice to interpret scripture as you want, after all there isnt any other scripture to interpret this one by.

    The point Im trying to get at is which Christians interpretation of scripture should I put my faith in. Should if be Pat Robertson, or maybe the dead Jerry Falwell or maybe Rob Bell. Whos interpretation do you put your faith in. Hopefully not Calvin, after reading much about that guy, hes definately certifiable.

  29. Good morning Shane

    Maybe I Cherry pick but you it seems, assumes and Im not sure which one is worse.

    “Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.”

    Here you are assuming permission was given, I choose to take it at face value, and it wasnt given in this instance. Also whos to say the guy would have believed Jesus to be Lord.

    “Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded”

    Now here you go assuming again. In my experience most people who take something that isnt theirs rarely give it back. But have its your choice to interpret scripture as you want, after all there isnt any other scripture to interpret this one by.

    The point Im trying to get at is which Christians interpretation of scripture should I put my faith in. Should if be Pat Robertson, or maybe the dead Jerry Falwell or maybe Rob Bell. Whos interpretation do you put your faith in. Hopefully not Calvin, after reading much about that guy, hes definately certifiable.

  30. Good morning Shane

    Maybe I Cherry pick but you it seems, assumes and Im not sure which one is worse.

    “Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.”

    Here you are assuming permission was given, I choose to take it at face value, and it wasnt given in this instance. Also whos to say the guy would have believed Jesus to be Lord.

    “Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded”

    Now here you go assuming again. In my experience most people who take something that isnt theirs rarely give it back. But have its your choice to interpret scripture as you want, after all there isnt any other scripture to interpret this one by.

    The point Im trying to get at is which Christians interpretation of scripture should I put my faith in. Should if be Pat Robertson, or maybe the dead Jerry Falwell or maybe Rob Bell. Whos interpretation do you put your faith in. Hopefully not Calvin, after reading much about that guy, hes definately certifiable.

  31. Good morning Shane

    Maybe I Cherry pick but you it seems, assumes and Im not sure which one is worse.

    “Again – with Luke – you are making an argument from silence – just because it wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean permission wasn’t given.”

    Here you are assuming permission was given, I choose to take it at face value, and it wasnt given in this instance. Also whos to say the guy would have believed Jesus to be Lord.

    “Also one could argue that this is hardly coveting. Also did they give it back? Probably, but scripture doesn’t say. There is much dialogue and events in Jesus’ life that hasn’t been recorded”

    Now here you go assuming again. In my experience most people who take something that isnt theirs rarely give it back. But have its your choice to interpret scripture as you want, after all there isnt any other scripture to interpret this one by.

    The point Im trying to get at is which Christians interpretation of scripture should I put my faith in. Should if be Pat Robertson, or maybe the dead Jerry Falwell or maybe Rob Bell. Whos interpretation do you put your faith in. Hopefully not Calvin, after reading much about that guy, hes definately certifiable.

  32. Hey shane

    “Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.”

    Im sorry but my brain(which God gave me by the way) has a hard time equating “all men” with “draws people to himself indiscrimninately”. Wow its amazing how people will “make it work”.

  33. Hey shane

    “Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.”

    Im sorry but my brain(which God gave me by the way) has a hard time equating “all men” with “draws people to himself indiscrimninately”. Wow its amazing how people will “make it work”.

  34. Hey shane

    “Also “all men” doesn’t imply that everyone will ultimately be saved; instead it means that Christ draws people to himself indiscriminately – He doesn’t give any regard to nationality, race or status.”

    Im sorry but my brain(which God gave me by the way) has a hard time equating “all men” with “draws people to himself indiscrimninately”. Wow its amazing how people will “make it work”.

  35. John,

    Wouldn’t it be fair to say that you are making assumptions as well?

    When it comes to interpretation I try to practice biblical hermenutics which means you look at context, languages, other scripture, what was being said to the original audience and then how does it transfer to us.

    I feel pretty certain that my interpretation is correct regarding “all men” in light of other scripture that contradict what you are saying. If it weren’t for other scriptures I would probably think differently. Again, you can’t take a single verse out of its context and also interpret it in isolation from other scripture. That is poor hermenutics and will lead to faulty interpretation… and application.

    No love for Calvin huh? He isn’t perfect, but I do agree with most of his teachings on the doctrines of grace, but those didn’t really originate with him anyway.

    Also, without knowing everything about Rob Bell, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell – I would say that on the major points of doctrine they have agreement.

  36. John,

    Wouldn’t it be fair to say that you are making assumptions as well?

    When it comes to interpretation I try to practice biblical hermenutics which means you look at context, languages, other scripture, what was being said to the original audience and then how does it transfer to us.

    I feel pretty certain that my interpretation is correct regarding “all men” in light of other scripture that contradict what you are saying. If it weren’t for other scriptures I would probably think differently. Again, you can’t take a single verse out of its context and also interpret it in isolation from other scripture. That is poor hermenutics and will lead to faulty interpretation… and application.

    No love for Calvin huh? He isn’t perfect, but I do agree with most of his teachings on the doctrines of grace, but those didn’t really originate with him anyway.

    Also, without knowing everything about Rob Bell, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell – I would say that on the major points of doctrine they have agreement.

  37. John,

    Wouldn’t it be fair to say that you are making assumptions as well?

    When it comes to interpretation I try to practice biblical hermenutics which means you look at context, languages, other scripture, what was being said to the original audience and then how does it transfer to us.

    I feel pretty certain that my interpretation is correct regarding “all men” in light of other scripture that contradict what you are saying. If it weren’t for other scriptures I would probably think differently. Again, you can’t take a single verse out of its context and also interpret it in isolation from other scripture. That is poor hermenutics and will lead to faulty interpretation… and application.

    No love for Calvin huh? He isn’t perfect, but I do agree with most of his teachings on the doctrines of grace, but those didn’t really originate with him anyway.

    Also, without knowing everything about Rob Bell, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell – I would say that on the major points of doctrine they have agreement.

  38. Hey Shane

    I like the Tit For Tat by the way………..and as far as hermenutics go, you have me there. But this may slow your burn a little.

    Wherever your heart is so follows your exegesis. I like to think GOD wants all of us around for a little longer than lets say 80 to a 100yrs.

  39. Hey Shane

    I like the Tit For Tat by the way………..and as far as hermenutics go, you have me there. But this may slow your burn a little.

    Wherever your heart is so follows your exegesis. I like to think GOD wants all of us around for a little longer than lets say 80 to a 100yrs.

  40. Hey Shane

    I like the Tit For Tat by the way………..and as far as hermenutics go, you have me there. But this may slow your burn a little.

    Wherever your heart is so follows your exegesis. I like to think GOD wants all of us around for a little longer than lets say 80 to a 100yrs.

  41. “Jesus confirmed to others He is God”

    This is blatantly not true. In Matthew 26 Jesus is accused of blasphemy – on the charge he was the Messiah – which he actually agreed to with the term ‘the son of man’. Nowhere in that passage or in any other form in the other gospels is Jesus called God. He is termed with ‘son of God’ but that is not the title of the One God either. Unless you can find a place where the One God is called the ‘son of God’ at any point? However, let this be noted, son of God can be found in Job and in rabbinical lit being used about people and judges of the law.

    I would also point out, if Jesus was indeed sinless (which is a Christian claim), then he could not be guilty of blasphemy by the Law (a sin). If he was guilty – he broke the law and deserved the penalty. As I point out, the fact he was not tried for being God then the charges were not legit.

    “Jesus said He was sinless”

    And the point is? Sinless or sinful – this does not prove equality with God – since this is never mentioned in the prophets or the law as a thing that would make one God. As a proof for the Messiah – maybe – but for one to be God – I cannot find that proof text.

    “Jesus forgave sin”

    Jesus was the Messiah of God – messiah meaning ‘anointed one’…well what was he anointed with? He seemed to be endued with the powers of judgment – which would make him someone of authority on the teachings of the law and prophets. Jesus just so happens to use this ‘anointing’ to forgive and heal people. It does show that Jesus was close to God – no doubts from me – but it also shows the confusion of the people around Jesus to recognize this (thus explaining the charge at the trial).

    It’s also rather odd that Jesus teaches us to become forgiving “’And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us” (Luke 11:4). Jesus seems to be laying out a lifestyle that will surround the Christian community – inaugurated by Jesus himself.

    “Jesus taught people to pray to Him as God”

    Although this is somewhat true – if Jesus is the Messiah and at ‘the right hand of God’ then it would also make as much sense…Jesus has been given this authority by God. Ever notice when Jesus addresses this point of interest – he is always glorifying the Father (ie: he knows there is a difference between the son and the Father).

    Matt 6:6 “close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret”
    Matt 6:9 “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name”
    Matt 14:23 “After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray”
    Matt 26:39 “And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
    Luke 5:16 “But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray”
    Luke 6:12 “It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer to God”
    John 17:1 “Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You”

    Many examples of prayer and here is what they teach:

    (a) Jesus prayed to God (a lot) – so logically if Jesus is God then he has no need to pray (to himself) – unless God is divided into pieces
    (b) Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father – namely in the Our Father prayer
    (c) Jesus prayed to the Father – and received all his anointing from God – John 17 clearly points this out – and he also understood the son does not mean Father.

    “Jesus said He is the only way to heaven”

    I have contended this point many times – is the passage literal or pointing to something else? I do not deny Jesus is the only way – but to me Jesus is defined by following his teachings. Reason I say this – well it’s in the same chapter – a few times:

    “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15)
    “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me” (John 14:21)
    “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him” (John 14:23)

    In the same chapter:

    “You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you ‘ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

    The Father is greater than I? If Jesus is making a claim to godhood – either John is a Gentile writing this (many gods in a hierarchy) or does not understand the meaning of One God. How can God be greater than another aspect of God? Does not the teachings on the Trinity mean the 3 are 1 (equal)? Or maybe, and this is the obvious part, Jesus is not making that claim at all about being God.

    “The question remains to be answered, how should we respond to the incredible person, work and claims of Jesus?” (Shane)

    For me it is as easy as following the teachings of Jesus – developing a morality/godliness in our lives that helps to revere our love for the human race (which God also loves) and a respect for our Great Creator/Father…who gives us the privilege of having the glory of life.

    SocietyVSs last blog post..Does God Hate?

  42. “Jesus confirmed to others He is God”

    This is blatantly not true. In Matthew 26 Jesus is accused of blasphemy – on the charge he was the Messiah – which he actually agreed to with the term ‘the son of man’. Nowhere in that passage or in any other form in the other gospels is Jesus called God. He is termed with ‘son of God’ but that is not the title of the One God either. Unless you can find a place where the One God is called the ‘son of God’ at any point? However, let this be noted, son of God can be found in Job and in rabbinical lit being used about people and judges of the law.

    I would also point out, if Jesus was indeed sinless (which is a Christian claim), then he could not be guilty of blasphemy by the Law (a sin). If he was guilty – he broke the law and deserved the penalty. As I point out, the fact he was not tried for being God then the charges were not legit.

    “Jesus said He was sinless”

    And the point is? Sinless or sinful – this does not prove equality with God – since this is never mentioned in the prophets or the law as a thing that would make one God. As a proof for the Messiah – maybe – but for one to be God – I cannot find that proof text.

    “Jesus forgave sin”

    Jesus was the Messiah of God – messiah meaning ‘anointed one’…well what was he anointed with? He seemed to be endued with the powers of judgment – which would make him someone of authority on the teachings of the law and prophets. Jesus just so happens to use this ‘anointing’ to forgive and heal people. It does show that Jesus was close to God – no doubts from me – but it also shows the confusion of the people around Jesus to recognize this (thus explaining the charge at the trial).

    It’s also rather odd that Jesus teaches us to become forgiving “’And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us” (Luke 11:4). Jesus seems to be laying out a lifestyle that will surround the Christian community – inaugurated by Jesus himself.

    “Jesus taught people to pray to Him as God”

    Although this is somewhat true – if Jesus is the Messiah and at ‘the right hand of God’ then it would also make as much sense…Jesus has been given this authority by God. Ever notice when Jesus addresses this point of interest – he is always glorifying the Father (ie: he knows there is a difference between the son and the Father).

    Matt 6:6 “close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret”
    Matt 6:9 “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name”
    Matt 14:23 “After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray”
    Matt 26:39 “And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
    Luke 5:16 “But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray”
    Luke 6:12 “It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer to God”
    John 17:1 “Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You”

    Many examples of prayer and here is what they teach:

    (a) Jesus prayed to God (a lot) – so logically if Jesus is God then he has no need to pray (to himself) – unless God is divided into pieces
    (b) Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father – namely in the Our Father prayer
    (c) Jesus prayed to the Father – and received all his anointing from God – John 17 clearly points this out – and he also understood the son does not mean Father.

    “Jesus said He is the only way to heaven”

    I have contended this point many times – is the passage literal or pointing to something else? I do not deny Jesus is the only way – but to me Jesus is defined by following his teachings. Reason I say this – well it’s in the same chapter – a few times:

    “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15)
    “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me” (John 14:21)
    “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him” (John 14:23)

    In the same chapter:

    “You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you ‘ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

    The Father is greater than I? If Jesus is making a claim to godhood – either John is a Gentile writing this (many gods in a hierarchy) or does not understand the meaning of One God. How can God be greater than another aspect of God? Does not the teachings on the Trinity mean the 3 are 1 (equal)? Or maybe, and this is the obvious part, Jesus is not making that claim at all about being God.

    “The question remains to be answered, how should we respond to the incredible person, work and claims of Jesus?” (Shane)

    For me it is as easy as following the teachings of Jesus – developing a morality/godliness in our lives that helps to revere our love for the human race (which God also loves) and a respect for our Great Creator/Father…who gives us the privilege of having the glory of life.

    SocietyVSs last blog post..Does God Hate?

  43. “Jesus confirmed to others He is God”

    This is blatantly not true. In Matthew 26 Jesus is accused of blasphemy – on the charge he was the Messiah – which he actually agreed to with the term ‘the son of man’. Nowhere in that passage or in any other form in the other gospels is Jesus called God. He is termed with ‘son of God’ but that is not the title of the One God either. Unless you can find a place where the One God is called the ‘son of God’ at any point? However, let this be noted, son of God can be found in Job and in rabbinical lit being used about people and judges of the law.

    I would also point out, if Jesus was indeed sinless (which is a Christian claim), then he could not be guilty of blasphemy by the Law (a sin). If he was guilty – he broke the law and deserved the penalty. As I point out, the fact he was not tried for being God then the charges were not legit.

    “Jesus said He was sinless”

    And the point is? Sinless or sinful – this does not prove equality with God – since this is never mentioned in the prophets or the law as a thing that would make one God. As a proof for the Messiah – maybe – but for one to be God – I cannot find that proof text.

    “Jesus forgave sin”

    Jesus was the Messiah of God – messiah meaning ‘anointed one’…well what was he anointed with? He seemed to be endued with the powers of judgment – which would make him someone of authority on the teachings of the law and prophets. Jesus just so happens to use this ‘anointing’ to forgive and heal people. It does show that Jesus was close to God – no doubts from me – but it also shows the confusion of the people around Jesus to recognize this (thus explaining the charge at the trial).

    It’s also rather odd that Jesus teaches us to become forgiving “’And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us” (Luke 11:4). Jesus seems to be laying out a lifestyle that will surround the Christian community – inaugurated by Jesus himself.

    “Jesus taught people to pray to Him as God”

    Although this is somewhat true – if Jesus is the Messiah and at ‘the right hand of God’ then it would also make as much sense…Jesus has been given this authority by God. Ever notice when Jesus addresses this point of interest – he is always glorifying the Father (ie: he knows there is a difference between the son and the Father).

    Matt 6:6 “close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret”
    Matt 6:9 “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name”
    Matt 14:23 “After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray”
    Matt 26:39 “And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”
    Luke 5:16 “But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray”
    Luke 6:12 “It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He spent the whole night in prayer to God”
    John 17:1 “Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You”

    Many examples of prayer and here is what they teach:

    (a) Jesus prayed to God (a lot) – so logically if Jesus is God then he has no need to pray (to himself) – unless God is divided into pieces
    (b) Jesus teaches us to pray to the Father – namely in the Our Father prayer
    (c) Jesus prayed to the Father – and received all his anointing from God – John 17 clearly points this out – and he also understood the son does not mean Father.

    “Jesus said He is the only way to heaven”

    I have contended this point many times – is the passage literal or pointing to something else? I do not deny Jesus is the only way – but to me Jesus is defined by following his teachings. Reason I say this – well it’s in the same chapter – a few times:

    “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15)
    “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me” (John 14:21)
    “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him” (John 14:23)

    In the same chapter:

    “You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you ‘ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

    The Father is greater than I? If Jesus is making a claim to godhood – either John is a Gentile writing this (many gods in a hierarchy) or does not understand the meaning of One God. How can God be greater than another aspect of God? Does not the teachings on the Trinity mean the 3 are 1 (equal)? Or maybe, and this is the obvious part, Jesus is not making that claim at all about being God.

    “The question remains to be answered, how should we respond to the incredible person, work and claims of Jesus?” (Shane)

    For me it is as easy as following the teachings of Jesus – developing a morality/godliness in our lives that helps to revere our love for the human race (which God also loves) and a respect for our Great Creator/Father…who gives us the privilege of having the glory of life.

    SocietyVSs last blog post..Does God Hate?

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