I’ve been debating whether or not to post on this, but it really has been bothering me the more I hear about it.  I believe in the freedom of speech, and the right to protest.  I understand completely why members of the homosexual community and other supporters of same-sex marriage wanted to protest in light of the passage of Proposition 8 in California.  However, the actions of some (I am not saying everybody) within the homosexual community during this protest is beyond the pale.

The first I became aware of it  was from a post at From Their Own Mouths that linked to a local news video of a pro-proposition 8 person being accosted in Palm Springs, CA.  You can watch the video below. 

To the group’s credit some of the protestors did approach the news crew apologizing for those protestors behavior saying, “this isn’t what we are all about,” but I wonder about the leadership of the organizing groups? 

Chuck Colson today listed some other examples of this type of response in his commentary today citing an AP story:

Two days after the election, 2,000 homosexual protesters surrounded a Mormon temple in Los Angeles chanting “Mormon scum.” Protesters picketed Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, holding signs reading “Purpose-Driven Hate.” Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills was spray painted. Church members’ cars have been vandalized, and at least two Christians were assaulted. Protesters even hurled racial epithets at African-Americans because African-Americans voted overwhelmingly in favor of traditional marriage.

Last time I checked free speech does not encompass vandalism or assault.  I also find it amazing that there are those who preach tolerance are using “hate speech.”  Is this tolerance?  I’d say not in modern or classical definition of the word.  I would hope that leadership with the homosexual community would condemn these actions just as mainstream defenders of traditional marriage have condemned the actions of Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church.

Update 11/15/08:  Apparently Mormons are receiving letters containing a white powder.  Nice.  How tolerant.

35 comments
  1. Wow. I have to wonder if these acts in the AP story will be investigated and prosecuted as “hate crimes.”

    Interesting that the news anchor felt the need to say there was a lot of hate and anger going on on both sides. That lady didn’t seem hateful or angry.

  2. Wow. I have to wonder if these acts in the AP story will be investigated and prosecuted as “hate crimes.”

    Interesting that the news anchor felt the need to say there was a lot of hate and anger going on on both sides. That lady didn’t seem hateful or angry.

  3. Not going to hold my breath on that. Yeah I noticed after I put it up that wasn’t the original video I watched, but it did show the footage of what happened.

    No she didn’t seem hateful or angry, so I too wondered why the anchor said that.

  4. Not going to hold my breath on that. Yeah I noticed after I put it up that wasn’t the original video I watched, but it did show the footage of what happened.

    No she didn’t seem hateful or angry, so I too wondered why the anchor said that.

  5. Fred Phelps is one of our sad Kansan stories.. his “church” is located in Topeka. Frankly, I do not have much tolerance for his hateful actions and do not have tolerance for the hateful actions of these “activists”.

  6. Fred Phelps is one of our sad Kansan stories.. his “church” is located in Topeka. Frankly, I do not have much tolerance for his hateful actions and do not have tolerance for the hateful actions of these “activists”.

  7. Me neither. We had protesters from Westboro Baptist Church come protest outside of the church I was a member of at the time, Valley Church in West Des Moines when Valley High School put on a production of the Matthew Shepherd story (I don’t remember if that was the name of it or not).

    The signs they held up were appalling.

  8. Me neither. We had protesters from Westboro Baptist Church come protest outside of the church I was a member of at the time, Valley Church in West Des Moines when Valley High School put on a production of the Matthew Shepherd story (I don’t remember if that was the name of it or not).

    The signs they held up were appalling.

  9. Not a fan of Prop 8, but if protestors become violent aggressors they should be hauled off the same as any neo-Nazi.

  10. Not a fan of Prop 8, but if protestors become violent aggressors they should be hauled off the same as any neo-Nazi.

  11. Won’t get any argument from me that whether left-wing, right-wing or moderate, there are certain lines you shouldn’t cross in what is supposed to be peaceful demonstrations/gatherings. Unless of course you want to be arrest-worthy.

  12. Won’t get any argument from me that whether left-wing, right-wing or moderate, there are certain lines you shouldn’t cross in what is supposed to be peaceful demonstrations/gatherings. Unless of course you want to be arrest-worthy.

  13. Shane I wonder if you can understand how these people feel. Let’s say that the government nullified your marriage as a result of a popular vote. A vote where your opponents lied repeatedly. A vote where the campaign was financed by a church with its own questionable history regarding marriage. Perhaps you would react peacefully, but I imagine a few of your heterosexual colleagues might react poorly to that.

    Of course protests should be peaceful. But when you take away people’s civil rights, you can’t really expect that a few of them aren’t going to be a tad annoyed, and react accordingly.

  14. Shane I wonder if you can understand how these people feel. Let’s say that the government nullified your marriage as a result of a popular vote. A vote where your opponents lied repeatedly. A vote where the campaign was financed by a church with its own questionable history regarding marriage. Perhaps you would react peacefully, but I imagine a few of your heterosexual colleagues might react poorly to that.

    Of course protests should be peaceful. But when you take away people’s civil rights, you can’t really expect that a few of them aren’t going to be a tad annoyed, and react accordingly.

  15. Iowaguy-
    I can’t speak for our host, but I wouldn’t give a fig if the government ruled that my marriage didn’t exist.

    Because marriage is a religious event; the government recognizing it causes more headaches than anything.

    Frankly, I rather doubt you even bothered to read Shane’s post– because the third sentence he posted very clearly said that he *does* understand why homosexual couples are upset.

  16. Iowaguy-
    I can’t speak for our host, but I wouldn’t give a fig if the government ruled that my marriage didn’t exist.

    Because marriage is a religious event; the government recognizing it causes more headaches than anything.

    Frankly, I rather doubt you even bothered to read Shane’s post– because the third sentence he posted very clearly said that he *does* understand why homosexual couples are upset.

  17. It’s too bad they are going to such tactics – and letting their anger get the worst of them. They may not like this – but they live in a democracy and votes count.

    Although I do not agree with the prop 8 decision – the people have spoken and the best thing these people can do is go back to the drawing board and wait for the waters to calm to develop a new plan…but they have to do it legally. Some of the actions of the protestors is reprehensible – accosting innocent people – they deserve to be jailed for that.

  18. It’s too bad they are going to such tactics – and letting their anger get the worst of them. They may not like this – but they live in a democracy and votes count.

    Although I do not agree with the prop 8 decision – the people have spoken and the best thing these people can do is go back to the drawing board and wait for the waters to calm to develop a new plan…but they have to do it legally. Some of the actions of the protestors is reprehensible – accosting innocent people – they deserve to be jailed for that.

  19. I think this is exactly why a church has no business getting knee deep in politics. That demonstration was pretty mild- certainly no WTO or for that matter- even a post NCAA championship victory party. Yet, because they are yelling outside a church it seems extreme.
    I think the Church is trying to have it both ways. If the Church wants their beliefs made into American law, then they should man up and take the same types of protests as would any government agency.

  20. I think this is exactly why a church has no business getting knee deep in politics. That demonstration was pretty mild- certainly no WTO or for that matter- even a post NCAA championship victory party. Yet, because they are yelling outside a church it seems extreme.
    I think the Church is trying to have it both ways. If the Church wants their beliefs made into American law, then they should man up and take the same types of protests as would any government agency.

  21. And about the “Organizers” that is the great thing in the Internet Age. You do not have to sit around waiting for some command structure to tell you what to do. The entire event start with a single Facebook event posted only three days earlier by a 26-year-old.

  22. And about the “Organizers” that is the great thing in the Internet Age. You do not have to sit around waiting for some command structure to tell you what to do. The entire event start with a single Facebook event posted only three days earlier by a 26-year-old.

  23. Colleen-
    Try to see it from their point of view; the government is trying to redefine an institution of the Church.

    Call it a civil union, they don’t like it, but don’t mind; call it a Marriage, and you have resistance.

  24. Colleen-
    Try to see it from their point of view; the government is trying to redefine an institution of the Church.

    Call it a civil union, they don’t like it, but don’t mind; call it a Marriage, and you have resistance.

  25. Foxfier, why would I comment if I hadn’t read the post?

    I specifically said, based on Shane’s comments, that he might very well react peacefully if his marriage was annulled by a voting majority.

    And if he is so full of understanding of the anger and hurt, then why the post?

  26. Foxfier, why would I comment if I hadn’t read the post?

    I specifically said, based on Shane’s comments, that he might very well react peacefully if his marriage was annulled by a voting majority.

    And if he is so full of understanding of the anger and hurt, then why the post?

  27. In every election there are those who are disappointed with the outcome. Had the vote gone the other way, would people want to be tolerant of an equal reaction cutting the other way?

  28. In every election there are those who are disappointed with the outcome. Had the vote gone the other way, would people want to be tolerant of an equal reaction cutting the other way?

  29. I live about 3 miles for downtown west hollywood and the only thing I’ve seen is them disrupting traffic on purpose. It’s annoying, but you have to deal with horrible traffic anyways.

    I understand the sentiment again the Topeka guy who pickets funerals with the “God hates fags” sign. He is NOT helping the church and I don’t think much of the church would ever be behind his actions. We usually see the sore thumbs stick out in public.

    We also have to understand that EVERY law is a moral decision, and the way our country is setup is that we can vote on these no matter which way we feel. And it’s definitely okay to protest, but violently protesting? I bet if someone caught a Christian on video violently protesting, we’d see it and hear it all over the news for years to come. Just because the media banks off of these kinds of things, especially involving the church.

  30. I live about 3 miles for downtown west hollywood and the only thing I’ve seen is them disrupting traffic on purpose. It’s annoying, but you have to deal with horrible traffic anyways.

    I understand the sentiment again the Topeka guy who pickets funerals with the “God hates fags” sign. He is NOT helping the church and I don’t think much of the church would ever be behind his actions. We usually see the sore thumbs stick out in public.

    We also have to understand that EVERY law is a moral decision, and the way our country is setup is that we can vote on these no matter which way we feel. And it’s definitely okay to protest, but violently protesting? I bet if someone caught a Christian on video violently protesting, we’d see it and hear it all over the news for years to come. Just because the media banks off of these kinds of things, especially involving the church.

  31. Foxfier, your ignorance of the legalities of civil marriage may be a major part of the problem.

    If you move in with a person who owns a residence and you are not a legally married couple, that represents a major tax problem. If you die and leave assets to an unrelated person, another problem. Health insurance from the workplace of an unmarried partner, another problem. You want to go on vacation, pack the power of attorney, durable power of attorney, not sure what else.

    And, of course, plenty of people want to void all legal contracts, not just “marriage”.

    It makes me sad how little thought so many people, apparently, put into marriage. Sad people value it so little.

    Churches should deal with condemning their own members and leave the rest of us alone. Religious marriage is a religious choice, civil marriage is a civil right.

  32. Foxfier, your ignorance of the legalities of civil marriage may be a major part of the problem.

    If you move in with a person who owns a residence and you are not a legally married couple, that represents a major tax problem. If you die and leave assets to an unrelated person, another problem. Health insurance from the workplace of an unmarried partner, another problem. You want to go on vacation, pack the power of attorney, durable power of attorney, not sure what else.

    And, of course, plenty of people want to void all legal contracts, not just “marriage”.

    It makes me sad how little thought so many people, apparently, put into marriage. Sad people value it so little.

    Churches should deal with condemning their own members and leave the rest of us alone. Religious marriage is a religious choice, civil marriage is a civil right.

  33. Erich Riesenberg-
    You willingness to assume I’m ignorant of the current legality is rather annoying, but not surprising. Nor is your seeming disdain for the source of the cultural institution discussed. (which has been taken into the government for record keeping and child-care responsibility purposes, but is NOT from the government)

    Happens a lot when folks want to ignore the historical facts.

  34. Erich Riesenberg-
    You willingness to assume I’m ignorant of the current legality is rather annoying, but not surprising. Nor is your seeming disdain for the source of the cultural institution discussed. (which has been taken into the government for record keeping and child-care responsibility purposes, but is NOT from the government)

    Happens a lot when folks want to ignore the historical facts.

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