John Piper explains this post regarding the Minneapolis tornado and the ELCA at the Desiring God Conference on 9/26/09.


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  1. I do not think that Piper needed to connect the dots between tragedy and the Lutherans position on homosexuality but he did. Apparently that day homosexuality was a bigger issue for God than murder.

    Seems to me that Jesus was more concerned with religious hypocrisy than homosexuality.. maybe that is the sin that Piper needs to be connecting the dots on.. maybe that is the sin that he needs to repent of?

    Of course I do not take Piper serious when he connects those dots. God loves the world.. violence and tragedy comes from within creation.. not from God.
    .-= Kansas Bob´s last blog ..The Plans of Our Heart =-.

    1. @Kansas Bob, I think Jesus is concerned about sin, but had compassion on those who did sin.

      How do you view Luke 13:1-5 then? Regarding your post that you highlight – what religion are you addressing? It seems to me that the only religion that fits the bill of what you are discussing is Islam.

      Also, I think you may want to backtrack a little, why does God allow it? God never does this? Being a little absolute aren’t you? That doesn’t jell with the Bible.

  2. The key to Luke 13:1-5 is knowing what is unreported sin causes folks to perish.

    I suggest that any religious person that blames God for genocide saying that God commanded it did not hear from God. You might enjoy the comment thread on that post about religious violence.. some discussion about how ultra-literalists view genocide.

    No need to backtrack about God and violence Shane. My position is that God loves the world. Yes that might be a bit absolute but God’s love is rather absolute.
    .-= Kansas Bob´s last blog ..The Plans of Our Heart =-.

    1. @Kansas Bob, I am not disagreeing with you that God is love, but He is also a consuming fire. He is also a judge. He is also a God of wrath. You can embrace that one attribute at the expense of the others. He is all of those things simultaneously.

      He is also a God of mercy and Piper did point out that nobody was hurt. He also said that God calls us to repentance daily.

      I guess it may be arrogant to make an assumption that the tornado was a warning, but if you look into details surrounding that day it was a weird event. I think it is equally arrogant to assume that it wasn’t.

      Also your statement about religious hypocrisy. Isn’t it hypocritical when a Christian denomination approves of homosexuality when by doing so they disapprove of what God says about it? I think that could be classified as religious hypocrisy don’t you think?

  3. Lets take John 3:16-18.. I think that it indicates that God loves the world and people bring wrath upon themselves. I don’t know why some feel it is necessary to attributes acts of evil and violence to God.

    And I think it wise to look to Jesus’ example and who he called hypocrites.. the religious hypocrites of His day were unloving and more interested in pronouncing judgments against sinners then showing love to them.. somewhat like some preachers do these days.

    I think it is arrogant to attribute genocide and violence to God.. although many have throughout history and even today.
    .-= Kansas Bob´s last blog ..The Plans of Our Heart =-.

    1. @Kansas Bob, Genocide and violence are evil and a result of our fallen state. Piper was talking about a tornado.

      He wasn’t pronouncing judgment – he was saying repent. Before we come to Jesus we repent.

      “People bring wrath upon themselves” – whose wrath? Shouldn’t they be warned? Is it loving not to warn them?

  4. Not sure that he wasn’t pronouncing judgment on homosexuals Shane.. the link he made between the issue and the “act of God” seemed pretty tight.

    No problem about warning people.. no problem with telling them to repent.. of course what they need to repent of is their unbelief.
    .-= Kansas Bob´s last blog ..The Plans of Our Heart =-.

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