Dead Sea Scroll

Final UPDATE (10:08 PM CST): The Restoring Honor purple hearts will be awarded to three people. He did NOT announce who would get them, or who his special guests will be tomorrow.

John Hagee is offering the closing prayer. He is one of the few to even mention Jesus, but not in his prayer. America’s heroes are not rock stars or athletes. It is the soldiers. In His prayer he spoke against pluralism, and mentioned the Only God. Her prayed for those in authority. America must have spiritual renewal. The Lord is God and there is no other. However, he said something strange about “blending our faith”. What does that mean?

UPDATE 18 (9:51 PM CST) Glenn Beck: “We are 12 hours away from fundamentally transforming the United States” One more song: God Bless America, J E McKissic, Miniser of Music at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. (What a Voice! – God Save America! From the White House to my own house” WOW!!!) UPDATE 17 (9:25 PM CST)

Dave Roever has been introduced. Roever was badly injured when a hand grenade exploded near his head during the Vietnam war. He is sharing his testimony. Though he was badly disfigured, his young wife stayed with him (going on 44 years!). He often makes trips to visit the troops.

But will any of these evangelicals preach the cross and resurrection? Here is more evidence that the evangelical church is anything but evangelical. Can there be a revival without the gospel? Can there be revival if Christians act like Mormonism is Christian? When professing Christian ministers like Roever call Glenn Beck a voice crying in the wilderness?

UPDATE 16 (9:14 PM CST) Gloria Copeland, a speaker in the charismatic movement is speaking about faith. She is giving the standard “name it and claim it” line listeners to her and Kenneth Copeland are used to hearing.

UPDATE 15 (9:02 PM CST) Summary of Rabbi’s speech given: Make lots of money so you can be generous. Study your Bibles. A flower cannot be separated from its roots and survive.

UPDATE 14 (8:45 PM CST) They are taking a short break.

UPDATE 13: (8:33 PM CST): Another serious disappointment: Chuck Norris and his wife were just introduced. He is reading from the inaugural and finals addresses by George Washington speaking of religion and virtue. He also quotes Bemjamin Franklin.

UPDATE 12: (8:18 PM CST) Glenn Beck attacks George Whitefield for owning slaves, but there is more to the story Beck leaves out.

Miles McPherson from Rock Church in San Diego is speaking. Why is faith up, and church attendance down? Hypocrite is someone who believes one thing and does another.

UPDATE 11: (8:10 PM CST) Twila Paris sings a song called “True North”.

UPDATE 10: (8:00 PM CST) Barton is talking about preachers from the 1600s-1700s, including John Hancock, Israel Evans, John Wise that preached about rights, economic systems, etc. Dr. Patrick Lee of Steubenville, Ohio is introduced. He takes a shot about those who don’t value life, but promote both homosexual marriage and polygamy. He also emphasizes that “Men are endowed by their Creator” and owe him thanks for his many blessings. VERY strong defense of life.

UPDATE 9: (7:50 PM CST) Rabbi Daniel Lapin of Seattle, Washington (Alliance of Jews & Christians) is touted by David Barton as a uniter of Christians and Jews. He prays without the aid of a microphone, to honor, I assume the beginning of the Shabbat (Jewish Sabbath). So far, 11 minutes of silence on the broadcast. He is getting lots of applause, however.

UPDATE 8: (7:31 PM CST) Congressman is leading in prayer. He is thankful for freedom and the priviledge of living in the US and asks God to heal our land. He closes prayer with in “In Your Name, Amen”.

Glenn encourages us not to treat the soldiers today like they did in the 1960s. Choir sings “Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord”. BEAUTIFUL!

UPDATE 7: (7:18 PM CST) Tomorrow will be the introduction of the “Black Robe Regiment”, and Beck mentions “George Whitefield again.

UPDATE 6: (7:16 PM CST) Keith Olbermann had to pay to watch on Beck’s website, Beck humorously said. Beck added that we are at the beginning of the end of darkness.

UPDATE 5: (7:13 PM CST) Pat Gray is introducing Glenn Beck and among other things calls him “America’s History Professor”. (see Below)

UPDATE 4: (7:08 PM CST) The National Anthem is Being sung by… (??) All of the music features choreography or dancing.

UPDATE 2 (6:39 PM CST): A black gospel group is singing “How Great is Our God”. David Barton announced that prayer was held before the rally with Beck and leaders from all branches. All branches of “what” he did not say. The announcer considers this “A United Nations of Faith” with Baptists, Pentecostals, and Mormons or a “Family Reunion”

Glenn Beck is hosting his Divine Destiny program tonight at the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts Center which will feature a huge number of evangelical preachers from around the country. Beck is also expected to announce a special guest for tomorrow’s Restoring Honor Rally. Among the possibilities are Andrae Crouch, T D Jakes, Billy Graham, Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, or James Dobson.

Beck has also been raising money for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. The rally will be patriotic and also features Sarah Palin, Alveda King (niece of slain civil rights leader, Martin Luther King), David Barton. Beck has taken a lot of heat for having the event on the anniversary of the MLK “I Have a Dream” speech and at the same location in Washingrton DC. Al Sharpton is hosting a smaller rally tomorrow across town to hnor King.

We will offer a first on Caffeinated Thoughts: Live Blogging.

Thought for the day: If this is not an opportunity for Mormon evangelism, why has Beck gone out on a limb and featured segments on history that support Mormonism and are completely contrary to the facts of history.

Last week he featured an attack on Trinitarian Christians by claiming that the Dead Sea Scrolls were written by people fleeing the persecution of the Church after they wrote the Nicene Creed. He is off by about 250 years; the Essenes were gone that long before the Creed was even written.

Several weeks he ago he claimed there was a lost civilization found in St. Louis and other parts of this country. No reputable archeologists or anthropologists support this notion but it fits the Mormon idea that Jesus visited America to preach to the Jews (Indian, Native Americans) that lived here at the time.

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  1. What were the exact date of this “attack”? I would like to see the episode and judge for myself.

    I would, by the way, like to point out that the statements Mr. Beck made regarding ancient America were based off of what he saw in The Lost Civilizations of North America documentary (

    1. Here is the text of his attack on Christians:

      All right. So here’s what happened. When Constantine decided he was going to uh… cobble together an army, um, he did the uh… Council of uh… Nicaea, right, Pat? …
      Council of Nicaea. Um… and what they did is brought all of the religious figures, uhh, together, all the Christians and then they said, “Ok, let’s uh, put together the Apostles’ Creed, let’s, you know, you guys do it.” So they brought all their religious scripture together, and that’s when the Bible was first bound and everything else. And then they said, “Anybody that disagrees with this is a heretic and… off with their head!” Well, that’s what the Dead Sea Scrolls are. The Dead Sea Scrolls are those scriptures that people had at the time that they said, “They are destroying all of this truth.” Whether it’s truth or not is, is up to the individual, but that… at that time those people thought that this was something that needed to be preserved and so they rolled up the scrolls and they put ‘em in clay pots and they, they put ‘em in the back of caves where no one could find them. They were hidden scripture because everything was being destroyed that disagreed with the Council of Nicaea and Constantine. That’s what those things are.

      Here is a blog post defending most of that position.

      1. I was just giving Beck the benefit of the doubt. I believe the Essenes disappeared about the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and the first Nicene Creed I believe was written around the middle of the 4th Century. However, you are right that if the Dead Sea Scrolls were written much earlier, as they may have been, and the later Nicene Creed was meant, there would be more like 4oo years difference. Thanks for your input.

  2. I don’t think Beck’s comments regarding ancient civilizations in North America are in any way related to his Mormonism. He touched upon a new way of looking at the universe some refer to as sacred geometry or fractal geometry. “Reputable” archeologists will tell you that the Egyptian Pyramids where constructed with manual labor and vine-ropes in a desert. Don’t let your skepticism of Mormonism color your view of Beck and I will try to remain skeptical of his religious statements in spite of my view of Beck. Deal?

    1. I’d make the deal if I didn’t know human nature. All of us color things according to what we believe. The ancient civilization is crucial to the veracity of the Book of Mormon which Beck believes. He was trying to make the case that the book of Mormon was plausible. More offensive was his attack on Christian faith in the Dead Sea Scrolls story which Joshua Morrison brought out CT earlier this week.

  3. Let’s be clear here – Glenn Beck represents a marginalized and highly innovative branch of Mormonism.

    Plenty of us are heartily sick of him, and wish we were not being tarred with the same brush.

    I can think of a couple people I’d rather have as the posterboy for political Mormonism than Glenn Beck.

    1. Seth, could you give me their names? I’m curious about what would be different about them. For my part, it’s not the political side that concerns me; I’m very much troubled by how Beck is presenting the theological…

    2. You’re “heartily sick” of Glenn? Then don’t watch or listen to him. I cannot stomach Chris Matthews, Olberman, Colmes, and many other broadcasters with Liberal viewpoints, but I don’t waste one split second of my life tuning into their programs. If you don’t like Mormons, then don’t join their congregations, but you don’t have to criticize them either. One of these days you might find yourself off a cliff and the person who stops to help you is a Mormon, would you prefer he just drive by and ignore you? How about if your child is being beaten by some other kid or kidnapped by some sick-o, if a Mormon tried to step in and stop the abuse and save your child, would you object to that?

      I think I would concern myself more with people who hate Christians and Jews so much that they want to rid the world of all of them even at their own peril. Yes, I would understand you worrying about that.

      Look you have the blessings of freedom and one of them is choices, and you can choose to turn the station or channel, and you can even move to another country, if you find one you like better than this one. But this one was set up with a document that all elected officials vow to uphold, so help them God, and it’s called the Constitution.

      Stop whining about Glenn, you don’t bother him, I’m sure of it.


  4. A poster on Free Republic had this to say, and I thought in fairness to Glenn Beck, I would add it here:

    “It should be pointed out that Beck knows and has spoken of the whole story on Whitfield on his show. This includes the story of Surrey, the slave given to Whitfield’s wife. Whitfield said she was welcome in his home but would enter as a free woman or not at all.

    Beck has spoken of Whitfield’s support of slavery as a means to an end in freedom and Christianity.

    “Here then I could conclude; but I must not forget the poor negroes; no, I must not. Jesus Christ had died for them, as well as for others.”

    A common finish to many Whitfield sermons. “

  5. What a one-sided version of what I am sure is going on at the Lincoln Center!!! What are you people afraid of, GOD TALK? AMEN!

    1. Lots of people have opposed my opinions, but even Mormoms who strongly disagree with them have conceded I have gotten the facts right. I don’t think I missed the essence of the rally. If I missed something, let me know.

      We are not afraid of God Talk, if it is the Truth, which Glenn has consistently avoided.

    2. @Sharon — Not afraid of God talk, not even afraid of “god-lies” but we will answer and refute them as long as we are able.

  6. Seth I am taking it that you are LDS? I thought the innovative spirit of ecumenicism was something that Thomas Monson was promoting?

  7. When there is a CRY in the wilderness and HUNGER in the hearts of people, God the creator of all WILL ANSWER and if there are course-corrections that need to be made in the theology of Glenn Beck and others, back to His Word in the Bible, GOD can handle that! It’s GOOD that many are crying out to God for forgiveness of the sins of America and for a return to His truth and the founding principles of the USA.

    1. God hears the prayers of the righteous. Who are the righteous? Those who enter by the narrow gate. It may seem good that many are coming together for a cause, but it doesn’t mean it IS good. In fact it may be offensive to God.

  8. Enjoyed the recap Shane. It does not surprise me that folks like Hagee, Copeland, Norris and others have aligned themselves with Beck. Their form of Christian patriotism lends itself very well to this venue.. and “Americans for Prosperity” is funding this weekend’s activities.. and some of those preacher folks have a pretty narrow view of what prosperity looks like. Reminds me of those TV shows that Huckabee did with Kenneth Copeland.

  9. David I don’t suppose you captured the audio from last night? I’m running Audacity right now to capture today’s, if you are interested.

  10. I read through some of the previous comments quickly. My take is that Glenn intimidates some of you. I hear jealousy and sarcasm of a man who simply wants to put God back in his proper place in America.
    You obviously don’t know enough of America’s history, and apparently you choose to ignore the truth. Everything you need to validate anything on Glenn’s programs is at
    In spite of your negativity and cynical viewpoints, we the people will prevail in Restoring God, Faith and Freedom in America. There are plenty of alternative countries for you to go if our Constitution doesn’t work for you.

    I’d like to ask you, if you see any other country in the world where people are sneaking in, illegally entering, and then get treated like we treat them once they enter America? Do you see any other country who gives a rat’s posterior about offending outsiders or visitors? Is there any Communist or Muslim Country that has a Christian Church in it?

    I haven’t seen anyone sneaking across a border, climb over a fence, or tunnel into Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, or any other like countries, have you? Nope, they all want to come over here legally or illegally to prosper. Well we simply want them to respect the founding of this amazing nation and abide by our laws and our basic beliefs. We want those who want to come here so badly from the barbarism they left to want to be an American first and foremost. Not a hyphenated American. And to realize, this is ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISABLE WITH LIBERTY (THAT’S FREEDOM) AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. And if they do not want to accept that doctrine, then stay where they are.

    If they come here they should want to become an American Citizen, learn English, study our REAL history, and be willing to sacrifice their life, fortune and sacred honor for her, the land we love, America. We want them to desire FREEDOM and not FREEBIES. Freedom isn’t free.
    God Bless You.
    And dear God Bless Glenn Beck and all the other Americans who wish to Restore America!

    1. Elaine, thanks for your comments, which are always welcome here.

      1. I am not a history major but I can recognize spin and distortion. Beck does know some American history, but he also distorts it. Thomas Jefferson was no Christian, for example. He tried to paint Trinitarians as persecutors of the Essenes, which was clearly false.

      2. I love this country and believe it is the best place on earth to live (except for those whose residence happens to be in their mother’s wombs).

      1. David,
        You are pathetic and misguided. All I can do is pray that God shows you his way. Children in their mothers wombs didn’t ask to be put there, but they deserve a chance at life as much as you did. This president believes in hacking away at children who can live outside the womb on their own, so that his girls’ wouldn’t have to live with their “mistake” for the rest of their lives. I take it that you go along with that as well. I used to be pro-choice back in 1973 when I was 17 years old. However, I came to realize as someone who was unable to carry a child to birth due to a brain tumor which engulfed my pituitary gland, that one person’s mistake, is another persons miracle. We all need to find our own way to the truth. Much of America’s real history was distorted and changed, you much see the genuine honest truth. Thomas Jefferson went to church every Sunday in our Nation’s Capital. That is a fact. He has been painted to be an atheist – I have read enough that I believe that to be false It’s what I feel in my heart is the real truth. I cannot wrap that up and give it to you, you have to find it for yourself.

      2. Elaine,

        Jefferson was a deist, David wasn’t calling him an atheist.

        He wasn’t a Christian though.

        I agree with you that much of American History has been distorted, but ultimately that isn’t the point of David’s post. Basically what he is trying to communicate is the difference between civic religion and Christianity, what Beck is “preaching” isn’t the Gospel.

        By the way, if you want to be winsome and persuade them a good first step would be not to call the person pathetic. You are free to disagree, but let’s not resort to name calling. That will get you banned here.

      3. ” I take it that you go along with that as well.”

        Then you don’t know me very well, do you? I have spent 12 months of my life behind bars for speaking up for unborn children. I placed a pointed video going after Obama’s position on child killing prior to the 2008 election. Your lecture on the murder of unborn children is misplaced. If you had read my first post on Glenn Beck’s rally you would have known that I would have tried to go the rally if it had been about child killing.

        Thomas Jefferson called God a three-headed monster. Jefferson’s going to church is irrelevant. The devil finds his way to church every Sunday.

        Obviously, what you feel to be the truth and what the truth really is are two different things on the matter at hand.

      4. David,
        I owe you an apology. I misunderstood what you were writing about children in the womb.
        I think we are really in the same book, just different chapters.
        I was in Glenn Beck mode and defence.

  11. Americans need to wake up the fact that Beck is simply another opinion pushing charlatan who is a product of mormon cult theology…. He does not possess a single ounce of journalistic integrity, has no college degree, has no qualifications and he is definitely not a true conservative. But then, what can anyone expect from someone who can’t find anything filthier than their own personal reflection. Since people like Beck cannot survive on the basis of any personal merits, they survive by puting others down with lies and half truths in order to feel good about themselves…. He flippantly throws around Christian terms like “God”, “Jesus”,”Holy Spirit” as well as voices of other so called “Spirit Powers” on his radio talk show. Beck is a mormon in active standing with the mormon church and is not a Christian. Mormonism teaches many gods, that the god of the earth was once a man who attained godhood status, there is no trinity, the cross of Christ means nothing and that Jesus Christ and Satan were brothers. Because Beck does not possess a single ounce of journalistic integrity, he is the perfect abortion poster child for Fox Network. The people who love what Beck says are no different than the impressionable sheep who loved every speech made by Adolph Hitler in his early years when he brought Germany into an era of economic prosperity These same sheep also blindly followed Hitler into one of the darkest chapters of world history. Beck and the Fox Network both cater to the same lowest common denominator of demagogery. Beck would not know the first thing about God as he is a mormon. Someone should ask him which of the many mormon gods he kept talking about during his argument with himself on Saturday on the square in DC…. Beck even lied on national television when he spoke about holding a document signed by George Washington. That event never took Place Unfortunately, people who love being led around by the nose do not realize that he is talking about a different god than that of Christianity, Judaism or Islam and that he has been a product of mormonism cultism from the day he started doing a radio talk show as an opinion pusher. You don’t have to have a degree in psychology to see that he exhibits all the signs of a dry alcoholic…. Glenn Beck is as big a charlatan as Josephs Smith or the 5th grade graduate (Charles T Russel) who started the Jehovah’s Witness cult.

    Note From Editor (Shedlock). Small portions of the comment above have been deleted as personal attacks (indicated by ellispes…) I generally agree with the theological perspective expressed above, but the language is too personal for me.

  12. Is there a way to find out the names of all the “dignitaries” for the Divine Destiny event?


Comments are closed.

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