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October Baby Fails to Deliver
The Kansas City Star reports:
Organizers shut down one of the largest GOP caucuses, in St. Charles County, because of bitter disputes between supporters of Rep. Ron Paul and attendees supporting other presidential hopefuls. Confusion and contention also marred several other crowded Republican gatherings, the Associated Press reported.
In Clay County, arguments between Paul supporters and others became so intense that the caucus chairman threatened to have voters removed by force.
Backers of the Texas congressman said they were upset their views weren’t being heard. “We’re just a little frustrated because caucuses are supposed to be run by a very strict set of rules,” said Paul supporter John Findlay, who lost his bid to become caucus chairman. “We raised a number of points of order, points of information, points of parliamentary inquiry, many of which have been ignored.”
But county caucus chairman Ben Wierzbicki said all caucus-goers had been treated fairly.
“Certain people have made it very difficult on most of the people who are involved in this caucus,” he said. “It might be a little crazy, but that’s part of it.”
This seems to be the M.O. – become belligerent, push the envelope and then claim victim status. I’m tried of the drama that Paul is causing when he has zero chance of winning anything. He came in dead last during the Missouri Primary, I know it’s non-binding, but almost 241,000 people came out on February 7th and of the three candidates who were still in the race who were on the ballot Paul came in last.
He should be trying to win contests and run an actual campaign instead of whatever it is he thinks he’s going to do with the delegate process in Caucus states.
Update: Some evidence that the Missouri Caucus process is screwed up.
- St. Patrick’s Day Massacre
- Greene County Hostile Takeover
- Read some of the comments at Gateway Pundit from Missourians about their caucus experience with Paul supporters.
- Bad behavior wasn’t just on the Paul side.
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54 comments
this title should read ” ron paul supporters fight to bring integrity and honesty back to american politics” this is boiling point .
Sure like they did in Iowa when they tried to cheat there way onto the convention floor when they were not elected as delegates.
It wouldn’t be cheating if a motion was passed to allow them to do so, which sitting delegates attempted to pass. Just because you guy’s supporters aren’t passionate enough to dominate the caucus process doesn’t mean you have to start tearing up.
Passionate… I guess that’s one way to describe it. The simple fact is that in Iowa people who were not voted in as delegates or alternatives were trying to get seated in Iowa.
I think they made the right call not seating them. Their caucus didn’t send them as representatives.
F YOU AND F THIS ARTICLE!!!
RON PAUL 2012!!!
Thanks for proving my point.
He proved nothing except that he is sick of the media twisting things to make it seem like we are the bad guys. We are the ones getting cheated and when we try to record it we are threatened with being thrown in jail. If you would go look there are a lot of people telling a different side of the story and not all Paul supporters.
Your inability to research and report your own topic, and to respond fairly and rationally to valid observations raised to your attention in these comments….
That goes to prove LIPS’s point. Just saying.
That explains why a couple of Santorum supporters knocked a woman out. Oh, but you don’t want to focus on that. You blame it all on Paul supporters. Are you just mad because Paul supporters know more about the delegate process than the media wants them to know?
Where was that reported? I don’t condone any behavior like that.
even a non ron paul supporter could easily review the tape, review the rules of the caucus and see that they were simply using the rules of the party to further their candidate. this is not very good reporting. So you must have an agenda
By bad behavior you mean participate? And then when they are clearing winning, you commit fraud to prevent them from becoming delegates?
Oh you mean like what Ron Paul supporters tried to do (commit fraud) in Iowa when they were not elected as delegates.
Would it be fraud if a motion was passed to allow non-delegates to fill empty slots? I think you’d call that smart, not fraud. It didn’t pass, and they couldn’t sit. How is this fraud again?
What does Iowa two months ago have to do with Missouri today? Your logic is getting fuzzy, Shane.
So the establishment leaders ignored their own rules and it’s the Paul supporters that are on bad behavior? And no chance of winning anything? In this very article it shows has the majority going from the area, and the same is going on in other locations as well. The other candidates staying in is almost guaranteeing a brokered convention. After delegates become unbound they can then vote for who they want. This isn’t anything new, just nobody took him seriously.
When the video is uploaded you will see what happened in St. Charles County: a blatant disregard for the rules in order to sabotage the caucus so that “undesirables” could not achieve an outcome leadership did not want.
Behold! This is democracy in America. A sham. They’ve been running the country this way for years: quietly and without any attention. But it looks like someone has noticed and isn’t going to let them get away with this anymore without a fight and a lot of publicity. I hope the GOP continues its heavy handed tactics showing all how corrupt politics really is in this country. If enough people see this, we’ll have the revolution we so desperately need.
Actually we have a representative Republic. So the primary vote doesn’t mean anything huh? At least the Democrats have this one right by making the Primary vote binding when they Caucus. Missouri Caucus is run completely different than the Iowa Caucus from what I can see.
No, Shane. The primary vote in Missouri this year really doesn’t mean anything. Most States caucuses are run completely differently and VERY few states allocate their delegates in the same manner.
People naturally become belligerent when after following the rules that they know better than the “leaders” of the caucus process, they are ignored and disregarded entirely. I am *tired, not tried as you stated in your article of people whining about the true patriots of this country trying to fight for their freedoms and rights which have been so thoroughly trampled on. This is just the beginning of things to come….
You guys are making my point for me. Thanks.
He’s right though.
They were arrested for recording violations of the rules in progress. For recording them breaking their own party rules to railroad in who they wanted to select, not who the people came there to vote to select.
If they wanted a rule for no cameras they had to vote on it, but they wouldn’t allow any motions. They can claim they made rules all they want, they had no right to make them.
You Have no point except that you stand for corruption in our political process. Paul supporters are standing up for their rights pursuant to GOP rules, and it is the GOP who is defrauding the process. Your points only prove your ignorance of the process. Paul supporters are well informed, and are being denied due process. They tried to take our tally sheets to an “undisclosed” location in my precinct, and we RIGHTFULLY refused to allow them, as the rules state that we have the right to witness the tally, to prevent fraud. Please stop your un-American pressure to allow fraud in our voting process.It is our system of proper proceedure that is being violated.
Sure they did because Santorum supporters are nothing but a bunch of young, protesting, unruly college students… oh wait…
Shane, are you ok with injustice as long as it comes from behind a podium? Oh, wait, you’re a member of the clergy, there’s my answer right there.
Oh, and from my experience, Santorum supporters are a bunch of ignorant fundies who don’t really care if we go bankrupt as a nation as long as we’re killing Muslims instead of babies. I guess Muslim babies don’t count.
Maybe it’s beause they ARE victims when the GOP establishment puts together their “approved” slate of delegates, and passes it WITHOUT a majority, and often, WITHOUT a vote… Would you take that without a fight?
This guy wrote this excuse for an article just so he could troll the comments section. Fantastic journalism.
why do you fear everything that doesnt hurt you?
I have never identified with the Libertarian movement. While I might agree at least partially with some of the policy statements put forth by Ron Paul, I have always maintained that their philosophical undergirdings tended to license more than liberty.
Ayn Rand was a primary philosophical source for the Libertarian movement. Born in Russia on Feb. 2, 1905 she, along with her parents, were opposed to the Communist Bolshevik revolution. (I certainly agree with her on this.) Later she was able to settle in the United States and became famous as a writer, particularly of individualistic, self centered novels such as Atlas Shrugged. She was an agnostic and based her philosophy upon “reason”, supported abortion “rights” and was an adulteress in her private life.
According to an article in Wikepida, George Woodcock, a Libertarian historian, “defines libertarianism as the philosophy that fundamentally doubts authority and advocates transforming society by reform or revolution.” Libertariansm has historically attracted persons from both the far right and the far left. The tactics on display in the Iowa and Missouri Republican meetings remind me of what I have observed for years among left wing radicals. Such anarchistic tactics have historically contributed to an eventual totalitarianism, the very thing to which, at least many libertarians, claim to be opposed.
No doubt I will be attacked for these statements and observations as Shane Vander Hart has already been. This world does not have perfect people or perfect political parties. Never will. Sorry, but some of the behavior on display gives me less confidence in the Libertarian movement.
Ayn Rand was a primary source for the Objectivist movement; she vocally and publicly despised libertarians. I find it amusing that you make generalizations about Libertarians in general, when political philosophers like Murray Rothbard – see: individualism – show the utter pitfalls of associating, categorizing, and judging people in groups. To do such things is to eradicate meaningful individuality and unique traits eradicated by such conglomeration.
You state that “such anarchist tactics have historically contributed to an eventual totalitarianism,” when Thomas Jefferson was amongst the many founding fathers of the US to uphold such beliefs and political systems. See my newer post above, search for videos from the event, find some eyewitness accounts of what went down in St. Charles – you’ll find that it wasn’t the Ron Paul supporters that were at fault, but party officials and organizers.
Yep, WT. The way it works is the people’s rights and property are systematically taken away in the name of “progress”, “freedom” or “security”, whatever the buzz-word is that day. As long as the powerful make enough “concessions” it keeps the people fat and happy. And quiet. But the powerful always want more and when they take just that little bit too much, the people revolt. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. “Such anarchistic tactics” usually lead to the powerful using force against the common people and historically those governments don’t last too long.
This headline is ludicrous. Some RP supporters behave poorly, but so do supporters of all the candidates. Where are the articles on them? And Ron Paul is so unfairly treated, his supporters have a lot more reason to be angry. I wasn’t there so I don’t really know what happened but neither was the author of this article. What happened to objective journalism?
Shane, you claim this is Christian Conservative News and Commentary, but what I see is a one-sided opinion based on preconceived notions that does not even allow the other side a chance for defense. I’ve seen videos and read commentaries from people who were actually at the caucus in St. Peters. Not only did the leadership not follow their own rules, they also ignored calls for motions to correct the situation. Cries of outrage for unfair treatment and rule breaking by the leadership (not by the Ron Paul supporters) came not only from people for Ron Paul but from people for Mitt Romney as well. After the caucus was closed without a majority in violation of Robert’s Rules of Order, which the caucus is supposed to follow, participants tried to reconvene the caucus, but were threatened with being arrested for trespassing if they remained on school grounds. Though there were many people surrounding him, only one man was eventually arrested for trespassing though he was conducting himself in an orderly manner. There is video of his arrest if you care to find it. Another man was arrested because he did not want to turn off his video camera (which showed proof of the leadership’s disorderly conduct). As a Christian and a conservative, I am appalled by your biased commentary. Christians represent Christ to this world and should not bear false witness no matter who they support for the nomination. Next time you might want to research a story from more than one angle before claiming to know what happened.
Hey, Shane. How about you take a look at a first hand account? Video below…
Brent Stafford (the man who was arrested)
Okay, I have a minute, and a beer! Here is the saga.
There are three main culprits to today fiasco. Eugene Dokes – St.
Charles County Republican Committee Chairman, Bryan Spencer – Chairman
of the Caucus Committee for the St. Charles County GOP (he organized the
caucus), and Matt Ehlen – The guy the installed as Chairman and who
ended the meeting before conducting any business. I approached
Bryan Spencer several times, prior to the commencement of the caucus, to
point out where things that were being planned violated the rules. He
said, “We are going to do it this way, challenge it if you want.” He is
the one that was trying to rig the process to select delegates
proportionally based on who was in attendance. They conducted a straw
poll as people were checked in, in violation of State GOP rules.
The meeting was supposed to begin at 10:00am. There were so many people
still in line that by the time the meeting was ready to start it was
just after 11:00am. Eugene Dokes started the meeting by
immediately declaring there would be no video or audio recording
allowed, and that if anyone refused to stop, they would be removed by
police. The entire room of what has been reported as over 2,500 people
began booing and demanding that recording be allowed. It was not just
Ron Paul people. Eugene Dokes then refused to commence the
meeting until everyone stopped recording. I made multiple attempts to
make a point of order to address the situation, but he refused to
acknowledge me. He then left the podium and called the police.
There were St. Peters Police, St. Charles Police, St. Charles County
Sheriffs, and Missouri Highway Patrol that eventually came into the
gymnasium and through threat of arrest made everyone turn off their
cameras. Of course many did not. Eugene Dokes then started to convene the meeting a second time.
Let me digress a moment. We had prepared very well ahead of time. I
won’t get into all of the details, but the Mitt Romney people agreed to
support me for Chairman. This was an incredible vote of confidence in my
ability to chair and to convene a fair process. I had also hire the
President of the Missouri Association of Parliamentarians who I intended
to appoint for that role. I never got that chance. Eugene
Dokes appoint the Creditial Committee, Rules Committee, and
Parliamentarian. These are all appointments made by the elected
Chairman, not the temporary Chair which is what Eugene Dokes was acting
as. The body loudly booed and started making all kinds of points of
order and other declarations of disgust at the blatant disregard for the
proper process. He then opened the floor for nominations. I
immediately started nominating myself multiple times. He recognized a
woman, who was obviously preselected, who nominated Matt Ehlen. At that
point about 2,000 people started chanting my name to be appointed.
Eugene Dokes ignored that and called a hasty voice vote and declared the
one nominee, Matt Ehlen, as the Chair. Hundreds of people started calling for Division of the vote. Eugene Dokes ignored them all.
Matt Ehlen took the podium and tried to regain order. After anout 20
seconds he declared that St. Charles County would not send any delegates
to the CD and State Conventions. He quickly found motions to adjourn
and closed the meeting. At that point I went to grab the
parliamentarian I had hired. She had not been allowed inside, because of
an arbitrary rule Bryan Spencer made up, but I had checked in with her
by sticking my head through the door of and on earlier. I told her to
come with me and I headed to the podium. I asked her how to reconvene
and since no business had been conducted according to the Call to
Convention, we had every right to reconvene. I took the
microphone and announced that people should not leave and that we would
reconvene the meeting. Eugene Dokes came up and unplugged the
microphone. At that point the police began ordering people out of the
gymnasium. At that point I went outside to try to reconvene the
caucus, according to the rules. A number of people were going to go to
another location to reconvene. I had to stop those that had not left and
explained that we were required to convene at the location published 15
days prior in the newspaper or it would be invalid. I then
found where the biggest crowd had gathered and began to address the
crowd. Everyone got quiet to hear me. There were 300-400 people there. I
explained very quickly that we needed to begin collecting a roster, as
required, and what that meant. I was immediately approached by 4 or 5
police of unknown jurisdictions who made me step down from the chair and
put me into handcuffs. When I asked what I was being arrested
for, or if I was being arrested, I was told they would tell me later.
Eventually I was booked for trespassing and released. The
actions of Eugene Doke, Bryan Spencer, and Matt Ehlen were the direct
cause of the event getting out of control. They have tried to shift the
blame, but it is all on them. If they had conducted the meeting
according to Robert’s Rules and the proper order of the agenda, none of
this would have happened..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htxDZOkwku4&feature=related
I’ll tell you one thing, I would never let you near any of my kids. I couldn’t stand having them be around someone who doesn’t know the difference between the words, “There” and “Their”.
I’m sure you’ve never made a typo before, but thanks for catching that. Anything substantive to say?
There’s a very large body of Youtube videos mounting that disproves any false allegations that Ron Paul supporters did anything out of hand in St. Charles, MO; in fact, it is very plain that Eugene Dokes, the temporary chairman of the caucus meeting, blatantly disregarded Robert’s Rules of Order, elected his own officers (which only an elected chairman can do), and then adjourned the meeting prematurely, all of which are in violation of the rules. Video evidence decisively shows that Paul AND Romney supporters are calm up until this debacle began. And, when the temporary chair threw everyone out – as he’d promised he’d do if there was too much support for Ron Paul – the chairman Paul and Romney camps wanted to elect tried for a rump caucus outside the gymnasium. What happens? He’s arrested. For trespassing. Thankfully, it was recorded by about three different people, and it is plain and clear that he was organizing peacefully and it was all an attempt to defuse another attempt at caucusing due to too large an anti-Santorum turnout.
This is Athens County Georgia
Yes, recording corruption within our government, that’s bad behavior.
wow , who would the devil demonize i wonder !
Shane, you have been made aware of factual lies within your blog. Why don’t you correct them and call out the individuals that were at fault? As a Christian you should be ashamed of yourself.
This article is literal crap. Please take it down.
Real actual people read your disinformation, and it has an actual effect on the real world….
Nobody is “proving your point”, Shane.
You are making yourself even more obsolete.
As if you were EVEN a part of the media up until now.
Hardly anybody started commenting on your “articles” until you started bashing Paul supporters.
This article is the most amount of readership you will ever get. Period.
Way to get your foot in the door….
Mr. Shane, you either know nothing, or you are deliberately trying to undermine justice. Either way, your article dishonors any claim you may have once had to journalistic integrity. Paul supporters become “belligerent” when the GOP tries to cheat in order to disenfranchise them. In St. Charles, MO, for example, where the biggest ruckus took place this weekend, here’s what actually happened: The St. Charles County GOP chairman (a Santorum supporter) TOLD someone who he didn’t know was a Paul supporter, that if it looked like Paul had the majority, he would end the caucus on a technicality so that no delegates would be chosen. There were clearly a majority of Paul supporters there, so that is what he did. The chairman’s ONLY job at the caucus is to call for nominees to lead the caucus. Rather than do that, he announced that the caucus would not continue until all cameras and cell phones were shut off. This call for secrecy is NOT a rule, and indeed the Chairman has no authority to make any such rule. Afterwards, he completely ignored the people’s nomination for caucus leader, and instead HE nominated a Santorum supporter. He then called for an oral vote on that nomination. About 40 people called for “division” which means that, rather than an oral “aye” or “nay” vote, they MUST actually count the votes. He ignored this rule, and declared that the “ayes” had it, when they clearly did not. The newly “elected” leader than immediately adjourned the caucus without a delegate vote, to prevent the Paul majority from electing delegates. Get your story straight, you hack.
I wish the media would stop lying. When a delegate requests a proceedural action according to GOP rules…its not bad behavior, its a RIGHT! Its very obvious to most people that the media is leading the bias against Paul and now to his delegates standing up for their rights. Americans need to wake up to the corruption and bias in our elective process.
Paul supporters have studied the rules and are approaching it within the rules of caucus. how the heck is that wrong? you do not do very much homework for your articles mam.
The Caucus was governed by Roberts Rules of Order, the Santorum people had no authority to make their own rules. If they didn’t want cameras, they had to put it up to a vote per RRs. The first order of business for the temp chairman Dokes was to handle the election of the Chairman and step away from there, he had no authority to appoint anyone, let alone a parliamentarian before we even had the initial vote for chairman. The ELECTED chairman appoints the parliamentarian.
Hahaha apparently protesting the overthrow of democracy by a local dictator is now considered “bad behavior.” You’re right, the Paul folks should have just sat there, shut up, and let Dokes appoint all of the positions that are supposed to be elected by the assembly.
Before the author bashes a man’s ideals, you should state what’s wrong with them. He has no chance, because people like yourself, are stupid. You reject, truth, and reality–even while it’s dangling in your face. You reject it because you’ve believed what the norm, or what everyone else believes because you can’t make a rational conscience decision on your own.
Really? Watch the videos! Not one rule was broken by the Ron Paul supporters and COUNTLESS rules were broken by the GOP. You should add this to your biography at the end of this article- “Shane Vander Hart doesn’t do his research and loses credibility, he would rather regurgitate MSM bias thus becoming another reporter shaming the profession of journalism.”
You’re also forgetting the part where Romney supporters were also on the side of Ron Paul supporters. But it wasn’t about Ron Paul! It was about Roberts Rules of Order being COMPLETELY disregarded. The GOP hijacked the caucus…. and the good people of St. Charles county were not going to let it slide.
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